Poll: Removing Pidgin and Hexchat from default install

Development Discussion
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#29

@ouroumov This is why you use plugins like Privacy Badger (EFF are the good guys).

I agree with removing Pidgin and HexChat, I’ve never used these since the early 00’s. HexChat is discontinued also, so no development will be happening on that. There are GTK3 replacements you could use, but many require lots of additional dependencies (aka, bloat).

I don’t think Chromium should be added as default. It’s not built really in accordance with *nix principles. They’ve forked just how many ‘libs’ just for ‘Chromium’.

I agree also that VLC should not be essential. You want it? Sudo apt-get install vlc, et voila.

#30

This turns to a funny discussion.

Why not just apt-get everything what you want? A command line system can give you all that but then we would not be here enjoying the out of the box experience of Ubuntu Mate.

Apart from some things I already find Ubuntu Mate to be relatively “bloat” free. There is no useless software center, Boutique is already a great replacement, no Synaptic, I do not need it and it would probably confuse new users. In comparison to some other distributions we have one tool for one task like VLC and not additionally Totem like in Mint, one browser, one music player etc.

In the case of Pidgin and Hexchat, I can understand the decision, they are Gtk2 apps and that seems to be the problem in the future. You could then argue why VLC, it is written in Qt but then the community already decided to replace Totem with VLC and I think for the better. I still prefer plain mplayer though.

4 Likes
#31

That’s just going to the extreme. A good middle-ground is to have the same amount of functionality as a default install of Windows would give you. Not everything is on Windows by default, codecs (some), Browsers, additional software etc will need user interaction to be installed.

#32

There are so few people who actually use those apps, it would be better to let them add them themselves as they are easily accessible in the boutique or through other methods. The way it is, I have to go around uninstalling things when I install a new distro - it’s kind of a pain in the neck. Having a customizable distro already ‘customized’ sort of defeats the purpose.

1 Like
#33

The mini.iso discussed earlier would solve this problem for the people who want a minimalist system.
BTW, what ever happened to that thing.

3 Likes
#34

This thing? The Mini ISO is still around.

1 Like
#35

I wish most distros would do that. I know what I use and would like to just install that.

1 Like
#36

As always, this has been an interesting discussion. I’ll cover a few points:

The reason for suggesting removing Hexchat and Pidgin is more about their relevance, to most users, rather than iso image space. I personally never use Pidgin, nor do I use any of the instant messaging platforms is supports. I used to, years ago, but now G+, Twitter and Telegram have replaced those. I do however use Xchat all the time, but that is mostly because I’m a developer and just about all Open Source development communication happens via IRC.

The seeds and meta-packages in Ubuntu MATE 16.10 have beem completely restructured. Most pre-installed components can now be uninstalled without uninstalling the ubuntu-mate-desktop meta-package too. To accomplish this has required lots of packages in the Ubuntu archive be patched to add MATE support. I’ve beem working towards this for over a year.

I did investigate replacing Firefox with Chromium as the default browser. After speaking to the Ubuntu Security team the decision is simple, stick with Firefox. Firefox is one of the packages maintained by the Ubuntu Security team, while Chromium is not. Chromium is updated on an adhoc, best efforts, basis.

All the default installed applications will (eventually) be listed in the Software Boutique, so you can easily install/remove the components you want to craft your own desktop experience.

9 Likes
Removal of meta-packages
Screenshots application startup MATE 16.04
#37

That’s excellent news on the meta-packages front Martin. Thank you very much for your efforts.

1 Like
#38

I suspected something like that. I think Chromium has received one single update since 16.04 release, and that really nasty bug in the PDF viewer hasn’t been fixed, yet. Though I prefer Firefox, I’d still like to see Chromium get regular security updates as well.

1 Like
#39

As already posted also remove dependencies for fonts from mate desktop so fonts not needed can be uninstalled.

#40

It’s not that one should apt install everything, my main concern is more OOTB things being considered so essential, that apt remove also removes a UM metapackage.

If I wanted to remove Firefox in favour of Cnrome (Chromium), then I should be able to remove Firefox and nothing more. If I wanted to remove, say, Caja from my desktop, that should take ubuntu-mate-core with it.

1 Like
#41

Please don’t remove hexchat. Pidgin I dont care about.

1 Like
#42

So Pidgin is removed from the default install of 16.10 and is now listed in the Software Boutique. Hexchat remains because it is useful for users to access support via the IRC channel.

4 Likes
#43

Is it possible to include Hexchat in the Software Boutique for those who want to easily and safely remove it? In fact, I wish that this is possible for all default applications. This would allow maximum flexibility in how to configure the system.

2 Likes
#44

If you want to slim it down further: Thunderbird also supports IRC (though unfortunately most people don’t know about that particular feature).

1 Like
#45

Yes, that’ll happen in 16.10.

4 Likes
#46

Firefox, too with the Chatzilla plugin so Thunderbird can be removed and Firefox, at least the default profile can be reconfigured, a ChatZilla package can be installed, or the support channel should go to irc://irc.freenode.net/#ubuntu-mate with KiwiIRC set as default handler for IRC addresses, since Freenode blocks Mibbit.

#47

I’m pretty much in the “keep Thunderbird” camp - I only mentioned that it doubles as an IRC client, but it’s main purpose is of course e-mail (and web-based main really isn’t everyone’s cup of tea).

#48