Maybe the Linux OS was a help--such a small minority of computers, compared to Windows. My uncle John, after telling him I used Linux, and he said he used Windows and Apple, responded by saying, "Isn't that kind of elite?". Not sure why people think that--has a GUI, where with Mate Tweak I have nine different looks; it's much more secure--my elderly mother might be tricked into typing some command meant for Windows.
WOW! If anything is elitist, it would be Mac !!!
That's why they're only affordable to people with money to throw around.
Also, make sure he knows that Macs now run as a GUI layer on top of Linux, so ask him why he would want to pay close to $3K for what he could get for under $1K !!! There are Mac look-alike GUIs aplenty out there!
[edit]
I acknowledge my error in making the reference to Linux. Obviously, I should have known better. I had intended to make the reference to UNIX, not Linux, given my personal exposure to that before Linux existed, back in the mid-92.
My sincerest apologies to everyone.
Yeah, they are rich. His wife works remotely for the hospital, and he is self-employed working when he wants, I think.
I'm amazed that folks here still hold to that old (and disproven) canard that Macs are "expensive." Just like other computers, there are some that are pricey, but so too are there Windows computers that could break the bank.
I've always considered Macs to differ from other computers in that you pay up front for what you have to pay for later with other makes. Macs come bundled with pretty much every office product that Windows users have to pay extra for. Anti-virus? Malware protection? Pretty much everything is built into a Mac. Drivers? Not needed, unless you have a printer that's an oddball.
Note that I am comparing Macs to Windows. @ericmarceau correctly points out that the Mac UI is layered on top of Darwin, a Linux kernel. It was actually a port of NeXTStep that Steve Jobs had created after he left Apple (and brought with him when he came back). In fact, Apple has added more command-line features than exist anywhere else that I know of, and have advanced many other features, such as the defaults command, launchd and launchctl that make cron look like child's toys (but require a lot more knowledge to manage (cron is still present, but "deprecated" as they say). The default shell for macOS is Z shell (zsh) which extends the features of previous shells (bash, csh, etc.) making working at the command line more powerful.
I don't consider myself "elite." I've been using Macs since they first came out in 1984 and they are still my preferred "regular" computing environment. Apple's Mac server never gained traction, and was discontinued in 2022. However, all of the features of macOS Server have been incorporated into macOS itself, so if you want to run an Apache server, it's already there!
Maybe some remember the Apple advertising campaign about the three steps to setting up a Mac? Step one: Unpack it. Step two; Plug it in. Step three: there is no step 3!
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Well every time I think of buying an Apple product I remember this old video:
It is seven years old today and nothing changed for the better it seems - gone are the days Apple was actually worth their higher price since for last ten or so years they just sell faulty products and if you talk with the people repairing them you will not consider buying anything new from them - the video lists most of the products sold with builtin faults
They are also very very against "Right to repair" ethos but still keep selling products made to fail without repair:
https://www.pcmag.com/news/judge-decides-apple-knowingly-sold-defective-macbook-pros
Also this is ongoing and is pretty big:
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Speaking of Macs, back in late 1993, I was given approval for funding for a project to use A/UX on a Quadra 800 to implement a shared server functionality for Nortel's R&D staff in London, Ontario. All Nortel's publications were Mac generated back then.
Unfortunately, they shuttered the factory in Feb 1994, so I never got the opportunity to see that to its successful conclusion.
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It is not about the top end computers most casual users don't need and will never use their full power. It is about the low end of the scale, which is why Chrome books even sell.
Apple M3 MacBook Air 13: was $1,079 now $829 at B&H
Apple M4 MacBook Air 13: was $999 now $899 at Amazon
Apple M4 MacBook Air 15: was $1,199 now $1,075 at Amazon
Apple M3 MacBook Air 15 (24/512): was $1,699 now $1,299 at Amazon
Apple M4 MacBook Pro 14 (512GB): was $1,599 now $1,399 at B&H
Apple M4 MacBook Pro 14 (1TB): was $1,799 now $1,599 at Amazon
Apple M4 Pro MacBook Pro 14 (24/512): was $1,999 now $1,779 at Amazon
Apple M4 Pro MacBook Pro 16: (24/512): was $2,499 now $2,229 at Amazon
Amazon: MacBook deals from $899
Best Buy: MacBook deals from $899
B&H: MacBook deals from $829
The Best Laptop Under $500
Acer Aspire 3 (A314-23P-R3QA) $429 at Amazon
Acer Aspire 3 (A314-23P-R3QA) $299 Walmart
Lenovo IdeaPad Flex 5i Chromebook Plus $599 at Best Buy
Asus Chromebook Plus CX34 (CX3402CBA-DH386) 128 gb $400 at Target
Lenovo IdeaPad Gaming Chromebook 16ā³ (82V80009UX) $429 at Walmart
Cheapest Apple $829 Cheapest Windows $299 Even an Apple Ipad cost more than the cheapest Windows laptop.
Apple iPad (10th generation) $367 at Amazon $426 at Best Buy
Now there is a big gap in hardware, but again many users don't care, they don't need the power of an Apple and won't spend the money on one. Pricing wise I would say Linux built laptops are close to Apple. System 76 cheapest laptops are $1,499.00 most expensive $4,199.00. Penguin T4 GNU/Linux LaptopPenguin T4 GNU/Linux Laptop$799.00
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I think technically Apple is based BSD from what I have read. Again I am no expert.
What is the Difference Between macOS and Linux?
No macOS is not based on Linux. No, macOS is not entirely similar to Linux. Learn the similarities and differences between macOS and Linux.
macOS vs. Linux: Origins
macOS has a fascinating history. The foundation of it was built by Steve Jobsās NeXT computer company when he wasnāt at Apple. Technically, it was based on the Mach Kernel and the UNIX-derived BSD.
macOS kernel vs Linux kernel
The macOS kernel is officially known as XNU. The acronym stands for āXNU is Not Unix.ā According to Appleās GitHub page:
"XNU is a hybrid kernel combining the Mach kernel developed at Carnegie Mellon University with components from FreeBSD and C++ API for writing driversā.
On the contrary, Linux (the kernel) was built as a free and open-source replacement for Unix.
This is beyond me, but maybe you can explain it better, it calls Darwin an OS not a kernel:
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Darwin is a polyglot combination of proprietary and open-source software. Thus, macOS and its Darwin underpinning is NOT open source, although parts of it may be considered such.
The longer (but not long) explanation is that the original Macintosh System Software (from versions 1.0 - 9.2) had become too intricate and embedded that it hamstrung Apple's further development. It's one of the reasons Apple brought Steve Jobs back, by purchasing NeXT. Jobs had created the Unix-based NeXTSTEP OS (based on the Mach kernel), which he then had engineered into X (technically, OSX), (not to be confused with Elon Musk's product, and which was always correctly pronounced, "ten," not "X") which today is known simply as macOS. Under the code name Darwin, Apple has continued to improve and expand upon its core system, always trying to keep the complexity of doing so behind its UI.
Tangentially (and I may have mentioned this before), I have an original copy of Apple's Human Interface Guidelines book (
1986) which was written during the System 7 days, that "wrote the rules" for developing Apple-compliant software. Windows had no such documentation, so early Windows software was a confusing mess of people writing their own interfaces. Mac software developers found that Mac users liked a consistent interface and found that their software was not widely accepted if it didn't follow the guidelines. That's no longer true today, and I often find myself irked at some "deviations" from what I've grown to expect from Apple software.
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I can attest to the fact that Apple's HIG was the key deciding factor for Nortel's heavy devotion to Macintosh computers as their platform for all Product Documentation and, not well known, Human-Factors R&D, which resulted in some of Nortel's 1980's products incorporating Mac-like interfaces in Central Office, PBX, and even end-station (desktop "terminals", a.k.a telephone sets).
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Okay good explanation, but is Darwin an OS or a kernel? I am still confused. Is Apple built on Linux or not?
I know BSD is very close and often include as both are Unix derived, plus runs Linux software, so am not sure.
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Some things discussed earlier that macOS ā Linux seem inaccurate, or it could be the choice of words.
Is Darwin an OS or kernel?
Darwin is the operating system, XNU is the kernel. Both have origins in NeXTSTEP, which Apple incorporated after acquiring NeXT, forming the foundation for macOS. These days, it powers their other devices too (iPhone, Watch, TV, etc).
NeXTSTEP has some BSD and FreeBSD influences too, so it is more "Unix" then Linux in that sense. But, Linux is not Unix (LINUX), it's Unix-like. Kind of strange that "XNU is not Unix" either.
There's such thing as POSIX compliance, macOS is certified (Darwin + XNU), if someone wanted to use a system that closely follows that "Unix" standard. Linux, Android and FreeBSD are mostly compliant.
Here's a good graphic visualising the history.
Is Apple built on Linux or not?
No, but it might share similar software, like GNU Bash, but it shouldn't be regarded as Linux software. One could actually run MATE on FreeBSD if they wanted. Maybe "FOSS software" is the more accurate term.
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Lacking precise wording myself, I turned to Wikipedia for the one-sentence description:
Darwin is the core Unix-like operating system... composed of code derived from NeXTSTEP, FreeBSD, and other BSD operating systems, Mach, and other free software projects' code, as well as code developed by Apple.
So, the short answer to your question is that Darwin IS the OS on which the macOS interface is grafted. Does that help?
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Yes, that I understand. Thanks
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Sorry, but just want to mention that link to the earlier discussion is pointing back to this same discussion, not that earlier discussion at
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Thanks, that's been corrected.
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