We've all seen them. Maybe even participated in them. I am, of course, talking about the never-ending discussions about "which OS is better" (also known as "The OS Wars"). Here is an article that I think makes some very salient points about why Linux has a distant third place in the pecking order.
4 Likes
Well, I see the point. More than that: I see no point to disagree with in the article. Nevertheless...
Do you think it is fair to directly compare, say, vegetables and fruits? To me that's wrong type of argument to prove personal point of view while personal tastes do not need to be proved by definition.
Please have a look at 'MGBs, TANKS, AND BATMOBILES' chapter in Neal Stephenson's 'In the beginning was the command line' essay (C R Y P T O N O M I C O N). IMHO his explanation of things is way better. 
3 Likes
I personally have no issues with Linux and in particular Ubuntu Mate which is my full time OS.
I do have a Win11 laptop right next to me,it gets opened up once a month for updates other than that it never gets used.I keep it around to be able to use Garmin Express but even then I now use my phone for GPS.
The wife is a different story.Her work requires Win11 and it's all she knows how to use.On her personal use laptop she lasted about 5 minutes with a few Linux distros and just gave up.Been trying to get her onto a Mac for a while as she will know how to use 90% of the software right out of the box but it's hard to spend that kind of money when a basic Dell Win11Home laptop can be had for $250 but in my eyes the money spent on the Mac would be worth it to simply get her off Win11 and if I ever do go back to using my Garmin I can keep it up to date with the Mac.It all comes down to getting her out of her "Windows Comfort Zone".
2 Likes
I posted this knowing that I was "preaching to the Linux choir," and expected the folks here to chime in about how comfortable they were using Linux. That wasn't the point.
Asking someone who's never used a command line, or is spooked by doing so, often finds Linux, and to some extent, Windows needing to do so, and that can be off-putting. That macOS offers and even more robust command line experience than either OS is often lost on the user because there is usually no apparent reason to do so.
The Number One pushback against Macs is their price. I've long said that it's "false economy" to look just at the sticker. How much is one's time worth? ("Time is money," right?). Every time one needs to install a program or tweak a setting is time spent that might be better used doing something more productive. I still remember the Apple ads that mentioned the 3 steps to setting up a Mac:
- Unbox the computer
- Plug it in
There was no #3.
1 Like
step 3: turn on iMac
(unless iMac turns ON when you plug it to the wall but I recall there is a power button top right)
1 Like
Oh, now you're picking nits! 
1 Like
My wife worked in a company that was all Window 10 (back then). When Covid hit and she had to work from home (I had already retired) she would have got nothing done if she didn’t have me for “tech support” It was a brand new Dell laptop and all the “updates” they pushed kept breaking it. She had no clue. Her “corporate IT” was a call center in India and their suggestion was to remove the battery when it locked up and couldn’t be rebooted or powered down! I mean their hadn’t been a laptop with a removable battery on the market for over three years at that point and these clowns didn’t know the Windows “trick” of “press and hold the power button and your breathe until you turn blue and the computer reboots”
I had made her home computer Mate when I retired. She frankly barely noticed the difference because all she did was Zoom, web apps, and work on docs. She had little trouble picking up Libre Office as to her it was just another version of MS Word and Excel to learn.
Unsophisticated users need help when anything is updated or changed.
1 Like
I believe the key point is the pre-installed OS factor.
Maybe all the Distros could get together, choose a Computer builder/seller for each region (Asia, Europe, NorthAm, SouthAm, Africa, Oceania) and make it such that any of those Distros are Buyer-selectable for pre-install before shipment from those builder/sellers.
That could even be set up as a two-tier system with
-
regional builders doing the "canned" Distro pre-install, and
-
Country-specific distributors for doing 2nd-level customization of Application set pre-install
But that requires a cooperation at a level not previously seen. It could happen if they used the for-profit competitors' strategy of a "Joint-Venture", whereby they each invest funds for a share of the venture's operations (or profits, if they become joint manufacturers, or joint-specification design for shared buying power of limited product range).
Many industry standards, and corporate entities, have emerged from such an approach ... and persist because of that "common-front" and "visible endorsement" approach! This approach could also overcome the issue of manufacturer resistance in providing hardware-specific drivers, since they would have Joint-Venture funding to encourage the manufacturer's "attention" for the much-needed support!
Maybe time for pursuing such an approach is overdue!
My 2 cents worth!
1 Like
My wife works for a major corporation and has no choice but to use Win11.
I should've elaborated and said that I was referring to her personal use laptop.
1 Like
It's not a tech article it's a paid ad for Apple. People who don't want to buy a new Windows computer are not going to shell out big bucks for an Apple computer when they could just buy a much cheaper Windows computer with a lot more options of not only price but manufacturers and models.
A lot of tech authors that live in the tech bubble don't understand the average Windows user doesn't read tech. They don't reach their target audience. Linux users are more aware and already understand the advantages and disadvantages of each system. Many Linux users already use Apple as it is Also Unix based (BSD) or have older Apple hardware they are already running Linux on.
To me the article is an ad and a waste of time and space.
When have Linux developers all gotten together? The biggest complaint on Linux is fragmentation.
I also don't understand major manufacturers putting on non LTS distros on their Linux computers. I would think they would use at the least a LTS distro. Who wants to buy a computer and have to do a major system upgrade or clean install a few months later. It's not like Windows 10 computers are selling like hot cakes right now before the end of support in October.
2 Likes
I think it’s unfortunate we have these “OS Wars”, and I know this thread was started to show some reasons why Linux is not very popular, but I still think it’s unfortunate. Frankly, I hate all the badmouthing of MS. I have used Windows since 3.1 and while I have had a couple blue screens of death, for the most part, Windows just works. I don’t remember a time at work when my laptop or the programs didn’t work. I mean, I have had hard drives fail or CPUs overheat but Windows has always been just fine.
And frankly, most Linux Distros are reminiscent of Windows. Hell, Linux Mint even claims it is the easiest transition from Windows to Linux because it is so Windows like.
As far as Big Bad MS is concerned, Apple is every bit as Big and Bad, in fact I think they recently reclaimed the number one spot. Besides, they lock down everything. You don’t even actually own the music you pay for in iTunes and you can’t install macOS on anything other than Apple products. Heck, you can’t even upgrade the ram in a MB. When I was a kid, having an Apple IIe was cool and Apple was THE anti-establishment company, but today they ARE the establishment as much as MS, Amazon, META and Google are.
At the end of the day, I am glad we have some choices and we should all acknowledge there is good and bad with every OS. Let’s face it, Linux is not for everyone.
3 Likes
That was not my experience with Windows. I had a lot of problems related to the registry. Early on it was self corrupting when you uninstalled programs. I remember I had a CD\DVD reader writer that just quit working. I uninstalled it to reinstall it and could not because of broken registry entries left in the registry. I had to find another software program for reading\burning. I used to have to go into the registry and delete entries that did not get deleted for thing to just work. Maybe Windows registry has improved since then, but I have no desire to find out.
The final straw for me was Win8. I hated that desktop and had been dual booting Linux. I had found open source and was using many open source programs like Open Office, SMPlayer and Clementine which was what led me to Linux.
I also figured out just about the only time I went on Windows was to update virus and spyware programs. That is when I became a full time Linux user. I have now switched to Moneydance from Quicken as my old 2002 Quicken would no longer work after an upgrade (it lasted 23 years) . The only thing I keep Windows around for is updating my Garmin GPS and I am still working on getting it to work on Linux, or I will find a different GPS manufacturer when I have to replace it. TomTom looks promising.
I guess we all have different experiences.
3 Likes
Actually during Covid she ran both side-by-side and used the HDTV input selection to choose her Linux desktop for personal stuff or her work laptop, She liked the big display. She’d sometimes Email documents to her personal Email to print at home, since her work laptop didn’t allow me to install the drivers for our wireless laser printer. It was a kludge of a setup but it worked for her. I’ve not thought about Windows since she retired.
1 Like
For the majority of my 40+ years in the computer field, I had to use MS products because that was what my employer and customers used. It worked--after a fashion--but I didn't like the way it worked. I became a Mac user almost by accident: When I was looking to buy a "real" computer in 1984, a developer at my wife's company was selling his original, 128k Macintosh. I've been a Mac user ever since.
What's funny is that over the years, Windows has become more streamlined and standardized, and the Mac has lost much of its original design philosophy.
Fortunately, I have the best of all worlds: Macs these days come with a lot of memory, and memory management that is superior to any other OS. On a 16GB MacBook Pro, I can simultaneously run macOS, Windows 11 (under Parallels), Zoom Workplace, my Mail.app, two browsers and still have RAM and CPU to spare!
2 Likes
I think the best Windows version was Windows 2000, Vista was a near disaster, Windows 7 made me think there was hope, and Windows 8 made me leave windows for good, I went to Ubuntu Mate 10.04 for my personal needs after trying Mint, and never look back. That is why I like “Traditional” easy transition from Windows 2000 or 7. Redmond looks like it would be good if coming from WIndows 10, maybe consider adding the Mate-Tweak option to the installer?
I still have an old Windows 7 machine for my Sony Vegas Video editing software (was rather expensive, and getting worse with every update as they add features I don’t need) I haven’t booted it since Kdenlive v21.12.3 came out.
2 Likes
I have liked most of the Windows versions. I even liked 8 as it was an attempt to seriously leverage touch screens but it never caught on. There is nothing wrong with making a mistake, it’s how you learn, and MS learned from 8. I actually had a Windows phone that was based on 8 and let me tell you, to this day, I miss that phone. The customization options were seemingly limitless. I even bought one for my Mother and she picked it up right away, unlike now when I still get phone calls on needing help with Android.
I’m not trying to pimp MS, but IMO they get an unfair rap.
1 Like
My main gripe (ignoring the crashes and DLL-hell installations issues) was every Windows version was a chance to force you to buy new versions of stuff you already had when the makers refused to update drivers. I was burned by rather expensive scanners, printers, and video cards etc. multiple times.
3 Likes
I know this is thread-drift, but Apple has been one of the worst in this regard. Starting with the 3-1/2" floppy rather than the 5-1/4", AppleTalk connectors, up through Firewire, Thunderbolt, USB-C and the elimination of optical drives altogether.
Much of this addressed shortcomings of available technology and moved the industry forward, but I have drawers full of cables, connectors, device dongles and more that are completely useless today.
1 Like
Yep… The only Apple device I ever truly liked was the iPod. As a music guy, I love my iPods but you cannot use them with iTunes anymore. Fortunately, I have figured out how to use them without iTunes, but it ■■■■■■me off that they couldn’t keep legacy support for them. It really cannot be that difficult.
1 Like