New default layout in Ubuntu MATE 18.04

Development Discussion
#10

As one of the traditionalists I have no issue with this.

Personally, I find the Brisk Menu so dominated by the (useful) text search that it’s horrible for keyboard navigating anything else on it. Since it sits as a perfect example of how keyboard navigation is being abandoned I can simply replace it. No problem.

BTW, I happen to be looking at panel layouts in Debian 9 Stretch with MATE 1.16.2 and it has only 2 selections on a basic install: Fedora and GNOME2. It struck me… that’s great names for those! :slight_smile:

5 Likes
#11

I applaud you Martin. You are making the right decision not listening to the vocal minority of complainers. The Brisk menu is a much much better default for the vast majority of users and those that don’t like it can switch to whichever layout they do like.

2 Likes
#12

Always amazed how some people change a We in a Me. Putting themselves on the other side of a We in just a few bits of too much of a wee-bits of Me.
Focus the We on thee and you’ll find quite a lot of your Me into what should be We.

re Familiar vs Traditional
Another applause here.

3 Likes
#13

Interesting choice.

I would first like to test how that look and works together before commenting about it. From the photo I’m missing Places (like it how there are more options there in traditional layout that were in 16.04.) Hopefully that can easily be changed trough.

Downloaded daily image earlier today and it doesn’t include that option yet. Also didn’t come with Welcome or Software Boutique, hope to see them back soon too.

Wonder why name it Familiar… Familiar to who? Not existing users that prefer traditional layout… To me it looks more Modern then Familiar, but maybe that’s just me.

I don’t mind more options, as long as things can be changed and customise to each users preferences.

1 Like
#14

Thanks for the update @Wimpy .
I don't have a problem with this either.

To the ones complaining in this thread, please be aware that @wimpy's actions fall square within the guidelines of the Ubuntu Code Of Conduct:

7 Likes
#15

@bornagainpenguin The menu is not what defines the desktop metaphor. The desktop, where you place icons and files, does that.

I’ve set out my rationale for making this change, no need to repeat myself.

You can only please most of the people most of the time. I am confident in my decision that this change, along with retaining the Traditional layout, is the right move. Judging by the feedback I’ve seen on the Ubuntu MATE social accounts, and here, most users commenting are happy to see this change too.

Your argument that a default is changing is weak since you know you can effortlessly restore the layout you prefer. I have no intention of removing the Traditional layout, there is no evidence to suggest I would. The number of layouts available in Ubuntu MATE continues to trend up.

You’re right, defaults matter and this is precisely why I’ve made this change. The lack of Super key launching by default is a regular criticism I see leveled against Ubuntu MATE and it hurts adoption IMO.

Not sure why you’re referring to posts about Compiz Fusion and Compiz Reloaded. Compiz 0.9 is shipped in Ubuntu MATE, offers first class MATE support and gtk-window-decorator provides seamless theme integration. You can even enable Compiz with a single click via MATE Tweak. The Compiz plugins absent from Compiz 0.9 are missing because they don’t offer OpenGL and EGL compatibility, if I we’re to provide them it would cause Compiz to fail on ARM architectures. ARM is our biggest user base BTW. Compiz 0.9 has been working a treat in Ubuntu MATE for three years on multiple architectures. I follow the Compiz Reloaded project closely and see no reason to switch at this time.

I think your pessimism is misplaced and I hope you’ll be a happy Ubuntu MATE 18.04 user with the Traditional layout :slight_smile:

5 Likes
Compiz Reloaded instead of v0.9 for UM?
#16

I think “Default” would be a good name for the new layout.

3 Likes
#17

Familiar because the two panel arrangement is retained with only the menu being changed. We already have a Contemporary layout and I felt Modern was too similar to distinguish them.

2 Likes
#18

Off-topic, but this is interesting. I see a lot of Raspberry Pi posts, but I would not have guessed this. I’d be curious to see more stats.

#20

I am using Brisk 0.5.0 on my “other machine” (Manjaro MATE) and, to be frank, am amazed at how buggy the Brisk keyboard navigation is, having always used Super+start typing until now.

Super then Tab gets into the right-hand pane, but there is no way to get into the left-hand pane and up arrow, down arrow and Tab sort of work to go up and down the list in the right-hand pane. In addition the menu has a tendency to become stuck in front of things …

I think I might put up some £ to encourage a fix. It would be great to be able to use Tab as now, all four arrow keys, Return to select and Esc to go back to the typing box.

(As someone with restricted shoulder movement, come to think of it, that would be a massive improvement).

1 Like
#21

Thumbs up! :relaxed:
Hope the Brisk menu is available for the “Redmond” layout, too (the layout that has only ONE “toolbar”!).
Never understood why we need two “toolbars”… even if my display resolution is QHD / WQHD - 2560×1440 -, I am not happy “giving away” any pixels for an additional “toolbar”.

1 Like
#22

You’re absolutely right–you can’t please everyone all the time, and sometimes the right decision isn’t the easy one. The new default embraces the adage of “retrospective future” by blending a bit of old and new.

Ubuntu Budgie has a section on themes in their current 18.04 Welcome, perhaps something similar can be added to Mate’s where the layouts are featured?

My only other comment/question is that I personally find Places to be quite helpful, is there a plugin that can be used for this Familiar layout instead of the menu from the Traditional layout?

2 Likes
#23

That is a quirk of history. GNOME back in the day when it was GNOME 2 always had two toolbars. (It is interesting how little has changed in 13 years - the screen resolution has roughly sextupled and the fonts and icons have improved, but good basic user interface design persists).

1 Like
#24

Yes, to add the Places menu, you can add the traditional menu (called Custom MATE Menu in the applets list) and in its preferences you can hide the Applications and System parts.

1 Like
#25

I think this is a good change. It is hardly revolutionary but adapts the traditional style to current advances in MATE. I think those who are used to the old default will have no problem changing it. Thanks!

1 Like
#26

Yes, we’re going to expose layouts in Ubuntu MATE Welcome. I added the API to MATE Tweak to support this early in the 18.04 cycle.

2 Likes
#27

No love for Cupertino layout? That’s my go-to for Ubuntu MATE :slight_smile: I’ve tried out Kubuntu and Ubuntu Budgie, and keep coming back (I do like that Raven bar, though)

Keep going, Mr Wimpress!

1 Like
#28

I have always thought that the “contemporary” layout should be the default one.
The HUD is a very useful, advanced and, as far as I know (and now that unity is not around anymore), unique feature that is not being used as a default.
Ubuntu MATE should show the amazing progress that has been done so far and I think this is a great choice towards that goal.
Great job!

#29

You’ve laid out explicitly and honestly what you want to do and why

Meanwhile, traditional is still being shipped and is easily available as a layout option inside Mate Tweak for newcomers (and established users like me) who want it

That’s good enough for me Martin

Thank you

8 Likes
#30

Thank you for that. :slight_smile:

Seriously? I had no idea. For how long has it been this way?