System restoration tool in the Boutique?

Boutique is a nice feature on the 'Ubuntu MATE', giving good impression and making it easier to any casual user - as compared to the Synaptic Package Manager - but I was wondering, why is there no system restoration tool of choice available?

Hello MSX

You could use "Timeshift". You can install it using the Synaptic Package Manager.

Tutorial: https://www.howtogeek.com/206491/

I use this myself. Does that help? :slightly_smiling_face:

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I know 'Timeshift', got good experiences with it sometime in the past. Somewhat, it is easier just to restore the system state after some messy installation, rather than doing any manual cleaning - not that I imply 'Ubuntu MATE' could ever cause me want to roll back to anything.

If the Boutique is meant to be all functional, in terms of software choice for the 'Ubuntu MATE' users, I wonder though why it ought to remain incomplete in terms of what otherwise remains common among Linux home users.

Hi MSX,

Timeshift is not in Software Boutique. However, Timeshift is presented in Software center.

Nice. How may software managers and boutiques do we want simultaneously, though?

The question is also of the program versions; namely, what is the reason for the Boutique to not offer the latest in some cases, such as with LibreOffice?

You can't satisfy everyone with a software selection. An app store will always miss something or be bloated. Such stores are ok for new users. Then they're just a waste of time compared to the command line. There's no perfect solution with those stores.
I read a chart yesterday mentioning MATE had between 3% and 7% usage in the GNU/Linux universe. New users here tend to believe a software boutique tailored to their tastes would vastly improve those shares after they've discovered this great distro. I don't think it would make MATE go from 3-7% to 30% (GNOME/KDE) and assume it will remain an incredible flavour of the most popular GNU/Linux distro and there's nothing wrong with that.

«Outdated software» version for some programs are related to the fact they're downloaded from the Ubuntu repositories, not the devs' PPA (personal packages archives). This ensures stability and security. By adding a third party source to install the latest version from a program, you're giving away your trust to that source to install whatever on your machine. If the PPA gets infected with whatever malware that ends up on your machine, it will not be Canonical's fault.

If you want to use the always latest versions of your software, install PPAs or use a rolling release distro. Once again, there's no perfect solution. It's always a balance between security, stability and features.

3 Likes

That is exactly the point. Why to maintain any software assistant, if at the end of the day - statistically speaking - some amount of users is going to be sent back to the commandline? Cannot we just make a cut and tell everybody to go commandline? That is the question of purpose. Why to maintain 'Ubuntu MATE' altogether, if statistically speaking, it is niche in terms of userbase abundance? Why to keep developing a program, if it has not been enlisted in a software assistant under a popular distro, but the competition? The answer is: for the sake of it, as means of self expression for whoever develops it, unless one is being paid money for doing anything in given regard, which is called a job - therefore, a mundane reason. That is why, the Boutique, ought to be kept in good condition and properly complete in the spectrum of popular programs - although hopefully not bloated, but balanced - because otherwise, purposefully speaking, anything that does not make immediate economic or exoteric sense, as part of a larger picture, should basically be abandoned. That is not how the art goes, though. Such way, the diversity of Linux ecosystem, would suffer greatly - if developers simply kept dropping their projects, for economical or emotional reasons, because someone, somewhere, got more public attention in similar endeavor. If Linux is not about the art of doing something of skill for the sake of self expression, then tell me, what is, in the world of computer science?

Speaking of rolling releases, I think it is the disproportion between the pace of software development and the pace of distro maintenance. Software development goes much faster and is independent of any distro policy. That is why, trying to pin a distro to a specific version of any independent program - or other way around - pretty much means automatic obsolescence. Especially that the version of LibreOffice present in the Boutique, seems like couple of good updates backwards; before manual updates from within the software, were even introduced, unless something tweaked and tailored.

Well, maybe I do sound idealistic in this post, but the point is, the Linux world itself, is pretty much idealistic by origin, now, is it not?

Because Ubuntu MATE is a distro targeted towards everyone. Plus, new users generally hate the command line. They want a flashy app store like on their phone with big icons to click on. Then if they stick to Linux, they tend to explore things more and figure out one can do great things with the command line.

I don't think the boutique is in bad condition because it lacks a few programs some users like. Then again it's ok for several users to recommend a piece of software to the devs (should they not already have reviewed it themselves), hoping it will be added in future releases.

That's why people use rolling releases. If you can't live with an older release of a software and are not willing to use another source to update it, use a rolling release distro. You just may have to deal with more bugs/breakages.

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Linux at heart is a commandline, but the commandline, is not for the people. If you want to have people around, look what works for the people. For now, you have only geeks - or nerds, that is.

When you start the Software Boutique, it states pretty clearly what it is all about. That is, there being a superabundance of software out there, it is a curated list to present a few favorites in various categories. I actually presents a lot of software.

Then it says, if you don't find what you want, try the software centre, or what have you. Everyone will have some favorite piece of software, their 'go-to' 'must-have' program, that isn't presented in the Boutique. There will not be total agreement on what is essential.

If you're just going to throw everything in there, it is no longer a Boutique - it is the software centre. It will always be 'incomplete' - that is the point, to avoid overwhelming newcomers. This is clearly stated. I don't really see a problem.

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Yeah, me neither, lets just close this rumble.

We're talking about people that maybe 4 times out of 5 went through the hassle of reading about Linux on the internet, burning an Ubuntu MATE iso then fiddling with their boot menu, trying the distro in a live environment and in the end doing well with the install process on bare metal and yet, they shouldn't be able to copy/paste a line once in a while in the terminal ? I tend to install UM whenever I can on computers that belong to people that aren't geeks nor nerds and they're doing fine with the software boutique and the command line if they have to.

What I don't understand: the newcomers that come here with a vision, like they're some kind of Steve Jobs that suddenly figured out how to make Ubuntu MATE the most used distro ever, ready to dominate the world and leave MacOS and Windows in the rear-view mirror. They provide an idea and that's it. « We need this feature. Do it.»
They sometimes don't realize this is a passion project by a small team trying to improve on something well established with little ressources and a passionate userbase. Every time they make a move, it's like they're putting their life on the line. See what happens with the upcoming removal of desktop layouts that are some users' favorites. «I was using this distro because of this feature and now it's gone so maybe it's time to hop on another one».

Remember this is a flavour of Ubuntu using a fork of Gnome 2 as a desktop environment. It's a great distro for people that like the MATE desktop or want to extend the life or their old hardware. I just don't get why everyone (as in mass adoption, not newcomers + experienced users + people with disabilities) should use it. Would it be better if prom queens started using it ?

The «command line is not for the people» reminds me of a sinking youtube channel trying hard to make money off's Linux newcomers mostly shilling flashy expensive(/overpriced ?) products and games instead of educating them. If a person I know can't achieve something using a GUI, I will help her achieve it using the terminal and then she'll be able to do it on her own after a few tries. That's called learning things. To me, the «command line blocks your path» mentality is a good thing to scare off people. If there's a GUI avaialble, great ! If you have to type something in the terminal instead, well, let's do it. Let's make as much GUI available with the ressources we have though.

In the meantime, typing sudo apt install -y timeshift in a terminal should not be that hard. Anyway, we all agree (I hope so) that Timeshift is an interesting piece of software that could make it in the boutique. Thanks for the suggestion.

By the way, there's no rumble. If we all agreed to everything, there wouldn't be much point posting our thoughts and feedback here. Thanks for raising the debate, participating in the community and let's hope you stick with us. I assume most people lurk and don't post on such forums. Such threads give solutions to new users sometimes. There might be new Timeshift users thanks to your suggestion.

@Utsuro, forgive me if you found yourself hurt in that discussion, but I believe you have a problem with either your attitude or your perception.

Enough of that MSX. Please stick to your thoughts on the distro and avoid posting your thoughts about other posters. Thanks.

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The syndrome you describe seems very common in UM-land. "If we just did THIS or THAT, then UM would conquer the world!" THIS and THAT usually boil down to "make the things I like to use and the way I like to use them into the installation default".

That said, I think prom queens everywhere should immediately adopt UM as their OS of choice! :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

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After all, it is actually useful to install the (GNOME) Software assistant, in order to be able to perhaps remove some of the programs present by default on 'Ubuntu MATE'. But before that, I would spend a while wondering why is something unavailable to install or uninstall through the basic recommended MATE Boutique, be even put on the system. I mean, if it is on the system and it is a software package, it should be covered in the main software assistant valid to 'Ubuntu MATE', being the system we talk about. Otherwise, why?