The one big concern I have about Arch is the rolling release approach.
To me, not knowing better, that implies Applications becoming quickly "out-of-step", and not getting the latest critical fixes back-ported to earlier releases.
That seems to be an exposure I would prefer not facing.
... or am I completely off base on that one?
I will stick to Debian based distros, Arch would not be a choice for me personally. I did see Parrot (which I have used in the past) has now moved to KDE. I donāt see that as a good omen for Mate. I still have an installtion of Sparky Mate on a different laptop. But Mint Mate would seem the likeliest candidate for me if Ubuntu Mate went away. If Mate itself is the problem and goes away, I would have to consider Cinnamon and KDE. I am not a big fan of Xfce.
A quick search of DistroWatch shows 68 Operating systems now offering the Mate Destkop.
When I limited the search to just Debian stable and Ubuntu LTS it comes up with only sixteen choices. (I had to add in Ubuntu Mate as it didnāt include it in the LTS because of not meeting the 26.04 deadline).
I think GIMP was the last program with active development to use GTK 2. Arch repos only just dropped it 3 months ago (mailing list) (todo). It was 2020 was when GTK announced GTK 2 as EOL. which is why GTK don't mention it anymore. 
For a rolling release, 4 years after upstream called its death, not bad. I imagine Debian/Ubuntu (and others, especially those with enterprise focus) will hold onto it for longer, it's still in Debian's archives (and thus, Ubuntu)
With that in mind, and the amount of GTK 3 software still in use today, I really doubt GTK 3 will become orphaned and distros would drop it entirely. GTK 3 is "stable" in that its API isn't changing. GTK continue to release small bug fixes. I'd say it's so stable, I still use older versions of their programs (e.g. I've "ignored" gnome-disk-utility and never updated it since 2 years ago - and it still works -- it's not recommended to do that under rolling release, it could break one day, but even then, I could just rebuild it.)
Wrong developer to ask. I invest my development future into Qt. At least I know I will still have menu bars and toolbars to play with. As a UI developer, GNOME's design language isn't for me or my programs - but I can see their simplicity design might be appealing for others.
I don't have ANY GTK 4 program on my system.
I must admit I was inspired writing the idea of a distro focused on a traditional experience, with the niceites on top - like Software Boutique, bringing back the "best in class". It could be seen as an "OEM customised" like EndeavourOS where it shouldn't go too far away from upstream, but replace/patch any parts as needed. Transparency being key.
I am pretty busy with life to seriously consider it at the moment, there are other projects on the backburner I want to attend to when I have focused time.
If it was me, I'd build it for the experience (traditional, dual panel default), not be too attached to the desktop environment. I would want to build something that followed my footsteps (
Ubuntu 16.04 + MATE + GTK 2 
Arch-based + KDE + Qt) because it felt like a "familiar but a new different". I was imagining both a MATE and KDE based desktop flavour that looked identical as a "this feels familiar" (MATE) "try this equivalent" (KDE)
Like my journey with Ubuntu helped me understand my OS better. I appreciate Arch for helping me understand how libraries link better.
A rolling release just means everything is more aligned closer to "upstream". Software may update at the same time if it depends on another. That's why updates may be larger and more frequent, because a library update (compiled, C++ kind) causes programs to be rebuilt. I find it stable most of the time, except the odd time once a year when "upstream" (be it KDE, a program I use daily or Linux kernel) genuinely have a bug or regression. Or I got picky with UI and went out of my way to 'patch' it back.
I don't like "babying" the OS, I want it to just work. I keep a tab on what's new, what's changing. For my desktop PC, fantastic. My work laptop's the one that's a sea-saw because it's got very new hardware.
In contrast, distros on a release schedule stick to that old program for years and then you "jump", things slowly change. There's usually a team looking after packages and bringing patches back (
), versus someone responsible for package updates and making sure they're still compatible with everything else (rolling, 
).
With software outside the repositories (AUR), I like how transparent / easy it is to see "the recipe" how that software is built, but it does mean manually rebuilding if libraries change (e.g. Python 3.12 to 3.13)... but a Software Boutique-like program could make that painless.
I do think our 
user base would prefer things not to change, so I'd agree Debian-based is better for those users. I would choose Debian too if I had a PC only used for specific purposes. I chose rolling release so my development tools are not "stuck" behind, and I get updates after authors announce them. Snap/Flatpak version try to 'plug the gap' so you can get the best of both worlds... except I like my packages to be 'native' so I avoid them.
Nate from KDE himself has said that distros like Arch are a bit like "quality assurance testers". We are a bit like catching/reporting the bugs, they get fixed upstream, released (x.1), then Debian/Ubuntu lock in a version.
Overall, if you propose to be 
MATE-centric, all the efforts (bugs, funding, time) should go upstream directly to them. That way, regardless of the future of , you'll still have the desktop you know & love.
Even so, a distro is just [///
] + .
Ubuntu MATE is just one that's ready-to-go one offering an Ubuntu experience.
At least one of the MATE team works for 
Red Hat too. It's quite a big organisation.
Employment doesnāt always reflect personal preference. Many developers work on one stack professionally and use something else entirely at home.
Just a side note on Arch:
I know this isnāt the kind of news Linux fans were hoping to read on Christmas Day, but unfortunately, on a day meant for faith, kindness, and hope, others are choosing to act in exactly the opposite way.
Many of you probably remember the problems Arch faced just a few months ago due to massive DDoS attacks, which mainly affected the AUR. Sadly, just when it seemed those issues were behind, a new large-scale DDoS attack on Christmas Day once again made the distributionās website effectively inaccessible.
Not sure why but somebody seems to be targeting Arch for some reason.
Sad news indeed 
I also am not the person that prefers anything other than Debian-based Linux so I would also like MATE to be more integrated in those distros - one thing I see as a possibility if people that know people would promote is a potential future for MATE on MX Linux since they already use XFCE maybe they could also be interested in MATE development on their distributions and I like how they integrated XFCE on their versions + they are very consumer conscious in a sense that they also try and find ways to support older devices so that we donāt fall into consumerism pits of āwe need new tech, this will not run anything 8GB RAM too low in 2025ā narrative
I mean Ubuntu MATE is such a stable distribution and itās such a shame itās not promoted more to people as it seems that there is two major factions 1 being GNOME and 2 being KDE and people tend to forget about other options more often than not and then they think āoldā options are outdated and/or dead so why bother
I am definitely stepping out on a limb ... and thinking outside of the box ...
Talking about GTK3-based GUIs and Apps, Xubuntu (which has been approved for 26.04 LTS) is primarily GTK3 since Xfce 4.14 ... and they are also working on the Wayland compatibility (don't know specifics of how).
Would it be insane to suggest that, somehow, Xfce could offer a possible target for a blended/merged GUI that offers twin default profiles/layout ... Ć la Xfce default or Mate default?
Being GTK3-based, can the internals of each of Xfce and MATE really be so different as to be completely incompatible, from a standpoint of GUI
Do the developers of each Team feel there are too many incompatibilities to even consider such a merger of people, resources and capabilities? Or are we dealing with another personalities conflict where the two Teams could never meet eye-to-eye?
Let's not forget NixOS, Martin's latest "muse" for his creative juices.
Martin seems to have reached a point such that his "flake" auto-generates his personal home computing environment, apparently on more than one manufacturer's platform, according to the table at the above URL. That sounds like substantial, and meaningful progress, especially since one configuration has incorporated Wayfire (a.k.a. Wayland-based).
Would it be too much to think that an "instruction recipe" could build a MATE-based platform (a replacement for UbuntuMATE), or even just limit the build to a MATE-Desktop "play-alike", with defined characteristics (able to be installed on any Ubuntu Linux base)?
In my previous post, I mentioned [re] creating a āKutinyā test version utilizing KDE on a cattle laptop installed from an Kubuntu ISO, to see how viable it could be as a Mate replacement while maintaining all of my workflow requirements.
Iāll repeat, I really didnāt want to go down this path having used Ubuntu Mate for many years (just before the very first LTS release). Iāve mentioned Ubuntu Mate to anyone I could, especially those playing with the idea of trying Linux for the first time (I think the desktop panel variations are revelation to new Linux users) and secretly used it everywhere I could back in my corporate IT days for tons of things that Windows couldnāt do. Iāve been a huge fan and promoter of this distro (outside of this website) until now.
With reservation but determination, I have since modified my main workstation (Timeshift backups in place) and installed KDE Plasma 5 on top of my existing MATE install. Very carefully and conservatively I removed everything that was Mate related that wasnāt strictly required. In other words, practically speaking, Mate is gone and I post this message from Plasma.
WARNING: Plasma uses SDDM and will mandate (initially) that you use KWallet for your system secrets, eg, SSH keys, account passwords, etc. The existing Gnome secrets integration wonāt work.
You can disabled KWallet and use KeepassXC as a replacement for gnome-secrets/seahorse if you are careful not to nuke the required gnome stuff while cleaning up the Mate components. I already use KeepassXC so I set this up too and as of this post, its working just fine.
If you want to do this too, or just test another DE, do not believe the various online suggestions to purge the Mate metapackages in one swoop. This would likely destroy your existing keyring information and basically, everything, even if you install the new DE first. Your underlying Ubuntu OS is, obviously, still gnome based. A new DE will use that then add the independent bits on top.
Removing secrets is an extinction level event if you donāt have backups, mentally remember all the passphrases, can recall your GPG keys, etc. (or expect to recover from a purge command).
Removing the Mate metapackage is very dangerous advice for another key reason: Xorg will be removed and a ton of other integral packages that will break things, badly, in both Mate and likely KDE on top of Ubuntu. Remember, KDE is still using xorg/x11 too. Purging the Mate metapackage will remove it!
Always use --simulate in your commands so you can see what gets removed and what actually happens. āTwo packages will be removedā vs seeing the hundreds that actually get deleted in the terminal!
FYI: Thereās a high ranking Google search result pointing to Reddit discussing a lateral move between Mate and KDE and others and back. Be warned. The original install, as I read it, used the Gnome edition as the base install, not Ubuntu Mate. The user swaps DEs frequently and has a isolated /home folder in a separate partition. That should not apply to us if you installed directly as a flavor from the Ubuntu Mate ISO. I wished I had a separate /home partition but I donāt and if you are a more casual user, you probably have it on your main partition too.
Once you have KDE Plasma installed (or others of your choosing), you may remove the mate specific apps using grep to find them explicitly, then replace apps with whatever you need/use. Some of the KDE equivalents are tightly integrated, others are useless (looking at you Kwrite/Kate) and they must exist and should not/cannot be removed.
Then you can go in with a fine scalpel and remove the remaining legacy Mate stuff, that is safe to do so, down to the plymouth loading screen, indicators, etc. Backup, backup, backup and test between both before you really apt-get remove and/or purge (as you feel you need). I have a limited main SSD for the OS, so I donāt like keeping tons of cruft.
A few thoughts after a weekā¦
First, Iām a little more than disappointed I felt the growing need to do this. Almost sad.
88 messages in this thread and nothing from Martin. Yes, Mate was originally for his parents, but the continued silence didnāt sit well with me. People are starting to talk about respin. No thanks. An LTS has a certain official and professional blessing with expectations for both the maintainers and the users. The longer I thought about it, the more I disliked it all. Weāre not Solus users after-all, are we?
Martin is obviously a big name to us, and we look to him for leadership. Mate is his baby. He has provided the community here and elsewhere a ton of things over the years, not just Mate, and is very likable. I want my gratitude to him and anyone still here or out on Github who has made this flavor viable, and better over the years, transparent.
I actually met Martin at SCALE in Pasadena, CA, years back, along with Popey and even Shuttleworth himself. Exciting times. Even a phone back then.
But the Canonical connection died a long, long time ago but some messaging should have been done here, even if it was: āguys, Iāve moved on, weāre shutting down, please fork itā or āguys please step up and well get this going again, hereās the emergency checklistā or āguys, the new project will bring a new imagining of Mate.ā Havenāt seen such messages?
The AI ārevolution,ā when reviewed carefully, does make even noobs more able to help out. Not without reservations or issues in the pipeline, but that doesnāt seem to be wanted either?
At, minimum someone (even donated) is paying for hosting here and they too have an expectation of communication. Relay it to the community, an end date, a migrationā¦something?
Related: I know KDE supposedly missed the LTS deadline too from the news sources for 26.04 along with Mate, but I believe this will be updated moving forward as our distro did at least once before. If they donāt, well, Iām still sticking to ESM/Ubuntu Pro until circa 2032ish either way for 24.04: nothing gained, nothing lost.
Frankly, I just donāt see really see Mate getting through the X11-to-Wayland transition regardless, until someone else fixes the remaining, big breaking issues and those are hoovered up, if they are. I need remote desktop to work; I donāt care how it does. I need existing workflows to work; I donāt care how under the hood. And I need security and that means LTS.
Mate might come back to life once the heavy lifting is done and everything can be easily automated again as we have seen over the years with a few tweaks here and there, shims and the occasional regression or replacement package. Thatās not really a viable model, less so with a single developer.
And to hell with all this Gnome GTK4 hidden menu, touch first UI, donāt-theme-my-app, we-know-better-than-you-for-your-PC ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā . Iām not wasting literal hours per year clicking through hidden menus while melting my eyes with the power of the Sun coming from my 42ā screen. Do I dream of true Convergence, sure. But not at the expense of normalcy. #rant
Secondly, speed. Turn off animation within Appearance settings and KDE is just as fast as Mate but per your machine spec, YMMV.
Third, thereās a ton more customization. Iāve recreated the Mutiny layout but everything is tighter, slicker, looks better, modern and the DE has an easy way to apply themes back to GTK apps separately from QT themes, straight from the System Settings, in basically three clicks. Discover is the app store we all needed but didnāt know existed.
Fourth, Plasmoids are superior to applets. Ah, the little things!
My weather now uses WUnderground for hyper local weather vs the old stuff (I used a 3rd party vs Mateās version because reasons). I was able to remove a ton of crusty 3rd-party indicators on top of that. The mate-dock panel (the ānewerā alternatives really sucked) doesnāt crash every click anymore and things donāt randomly fail and Iāve been able to remove a lot of flatpak and snaps, restoring deb installs that would freak out the Mate DE panels. Less disparate system of systems.
Caveat: I did sorely miss Mateās Alt-F2 launcher (Krunner is ok but visually tiny and top aligned by default) so I replaced it with Albert which is distro agnostic. Brisk was replaced in using KLaunch dash along with Simple Application Launcher for the old style list menu (though it does not follow the mouse location, sadly). Plasma-hud replaced mate-hud and works much better with the global menu equivalent + debs.
Fifth, thereās a ton of small things that are just better, faster, integrated, etc. Find them yourself such as improved window snapping, more options for custom commands, keyboard shortcuts, toggles, etc. Its like the DE is for more professional adulting vs. an old tired, basement project.
Conclusion: Iām satisfied with the jump (not to convey that Iām happy about it). I tested my work flow for about a week before gutting the Mate stuff, but so far everything is now in place. I could have probably done this in a single day if I was aggressive about it, or for those who can just nuke with a Kubuntu ISO install (likely better for upgrading without issues in the future) in a few hours to tweak everything back to what you had with Mate. Donāt sleep on it.
I mentioned before that my other tech also runs Mate. Self-hosted stuff. Those will stay on Mate 24.04 as long as possible with ESM support. I donāt see transitioning them as they are only touched if thereās a problem and the DE isnāt used unless required for easier troubleshooting.
I want to close this post (its long, sorry) that I believed in the Mate distro for a long time and championed it often but without some great invigoration by an actual team, I think I have, sadly and with some bitter-sweetness, moved on(?).
I hear you, @clessley
Yeah, long post but never apologize for stating your feelings about what's going on. And I like reading long posts.
From what I've read on your previous post, you've got a whole structure and a workflow already set-up, and the current situation could break it all.
It is great that you found a way to move away from MATE, just in case. You've got to have a backup plan, and then another backup, and then another.
My situation, on the contrary, is the opposite: I need a platform where I can do all my work and other stuff for the next 3 to 5 years. Personal work and professional work.
I'm worried about Ubuntu MATE, because it missed the date to qualify as an LTS, but who knows, maybe when the date comes, Mr. Martin W. will release a 26.04 version. Or not. We will not know until then. So we've got to have a backup plan.
But I've got to say, Ubuntu MATE as an operating system is the one livin' on the edge, while MATE Desktop is not. MATE desktop is still in development, even if they're short-handed as any small project, but they're very much active.
In my case, I installed Xubuntu 24.04.3 and then installed MATE desktop on top of it. Right now I'm posting this from MATE desktop, which is where I want to be doing all my stuff.
MATE desktop is alive and in development, and can be installed in any compatible flavor or distro.
I'm not trying to change your mind, just sayin' to keep that in mind before moving everything to a new platform. (although from what you're saying, you already did).
Bottom line: youāve got to do what youāve got to do.
Well said. I will be happy if @Wimpy comes along soon with a big exciting announcement.
After posting I went through the other threads and the categories on this topic, to make sure I didnāt miss something and mispoke out of step.
I work (and play) on my main machine and KDE isnt exactly known for being lean or even being the most stable choice. Its about the workflow and replicating what I had with Mutiny ironically enough. I already used three of their main software offerings on Mate previously so it made sense.
I wanted to warn anyone about the gnome keyring/secrets. Had a pucker moment when I could not remember an important passphrase on a key but Seahorse still worked to extract that.
Linux = choice and were all better for it.
Took a couple weeks off for the holidays, coming back and seeing this really picked up steam.
I hope there is news about Ubuntu MATEās future from the dev team.
Arch is definitely a good building block. As this is not my cup of mate 
, Iām giving openSUSE Tumbleweed a shot. First impressions are it has a nice out-of-the-box MATE 1.28 setup that is reminiscent of the āRedmondā layout. It actually comes with MATE Tweak out of the box with a few different panel layouts, though I havenāt played around with them. I actually like the default.
YaST configuration tools also fit the Software Boutique/Welcome void for me so far.
Letās see how a rolling release goes though.
Another thought ā if UM does go out to pasture and we go our separate ways (if some go to Arch, others Linux Mint, openSUSE, Debian, etc.) it would be nice to keep this group around for general MATE help or discussion. We really have something special here.
Jaymo
Even if Ubuntu MATE did cease as an official flavour - there's still + . Not sure what would happen to the flavour-specific packages (default settings) that makes "Ubuntu MATE" in that scenario.
Most other distros just have MATE packaged up ( 
) with minimal to no patches. The ones offering it officially are likely to customise/patch it, so like Linux Mint and Ubuntu MATE (e.g. we use indicators instead of MATE applets by default). I start to see why communities/forums are weary of cross-contaminating distros since the experiences can wildly differ.
Suppose it depends how we like our MATE too. 
It might mean there's users like me and @clessley (above) that finds another desktop environment to call home. For me, I still use the dual panel layout, I wasn't married to GTK 3.
I'd say and offer the most "pure" vanilla MATE experience, but then it might not feel like home if it was the theme, the indicators, the "Ubuntu" feel on this timeline where Ubuntu didn't switch to Unity and GNOME 3. Or maybe the "vanilla" stock MATE experience can be easily set up to mimic Ubuntu MATE's?
Thatās true. Looking back I mentioned that earlier in this thread. I guess thatās what a couple weeks of holiday does to the memory. 
That makes sense too. Also, for beginners, it can be nearly impossible to decipher which is what kind of problem (e.g., issue or question regarding the desktop environment vs. the distribution). I guess I donāt want to see this forum disappear, and the group of people that contribute to it, even if Ubuntu MATE as the distribution itself ceases to continue.
I also donāt want to lead people off Ubuntu MATE and recommend something else. I just have to think about myself and my needs going forward, just like others in this thread.
Iāve tried both Arch and Debian with MATE and agree that it just doesnāt feel like āhomeā the way Ubuntu MATE does. Trying 
feels as close to the Ubuntu MATE cohesiveness out of the box, in my opinion, even compared to Linux Mint, as Linux Mint does not come with the panel layouts and the MATE Tweak tool out of the box.
I came to Linux late in life and have only really been using it seriously as long as I have been a member of this forum, so basically just a few years. I did start with vanilla Ubuntu and then I read an article about UM being an underutilized gem in the distro world so I gave it a try. To be honest, it was this community that really locked me into UM. All of you have been welcoming and helpful and really have helped me embrace linux. I find my self doing things like using cron, writing scripts and I even created a home network. Iām no expert and half the time I still have no idea what a lot of you are talking about, but my point is, it was this community more than it was the distro that made me support UMā¦ for me anyway.
I also think UM missed the boat. With the end of Win 10 support, a lot of linux distros ācashed inā so to speak and UM had an opportunity to showcase itself but was totally silent. When I first installed UM, it was in the low 80ās on Distro watch and for the last three months it has fallen to 180+. I know DW is not a true picture of number of installs, but it does indicate the number of searches/interest and it just keeps dropping.
Anyway, considering this thread, I am starting to explore different distros. Iāll stick with Ubuntu/Debian based distros and right now I am leaning toward MINT as I would rather use a distro that looks like it will be around for a while and one that has plenty of support. Plus, I am not really a power user so I want something that works as well as provides me a platform to learn and explore. Ironically, the thing holding me back from making the switch is their forums. They are horrible and some of the moderators need to not be moderators.
Hereās hoping UM sticks around and I donāt have to make the jump, and I agree with others, it would be nice if we had some communication from the devs on UMās future.
I don't see a team. Try reaching out to the project leader: https://wimpysworld.io/
... Good luck.
I think this topic is starting to go in circles, it's already long. As I was digging about, I noticed he hasn't posted here in 2025. With this new year, 2026, I hope we can get official clarity too.
As @ratatoskr said for 24.04, I agree that parting ways with a project is OK. Just seen the mentioned NixCon2023 video, and yes, our project leader had this slide:
I want to migrate friends and family to NixOS; they are not Linux experts.
I would be interested if 2 years since that video if he's closer to that objective, then what's the plan for Ubuntu MATE? Just a month ago, he did a talk about Nix + Ubuntu (NĆøughty Linux) which is pretty interesting bridge between the Nix world and Ubuntu.
He's active on the Linux Matters podcast if anyone thinks it's worth hanging out here and asking what the vision is for Ubuntu MATE? Plus, this could be a good podcast discussion topic about Ubuntu flavours in general, since other flavours are struggling with collaborators too. (What would be the best course of action? What's different about the Linux community these days?)
Thank you, Luke!
You digging up the reference
is, for me, as strong a signal as it could get!
If the Lead Developper (Martin Wimpress) is openly stating and broadcasting a desire migrate those closest to him to NixOS ... the rationale being "they are not Linux experts" ... then there can be little doubt regarding UbuntuMATE's future prospects, unless someone else steps up to take the reigns and "cajole" suitable candidate Developers to join/expand the Team to re-invigorate our favourite Ubuntu flavour. So ... it would appear that looking further afield for a "soft landing" is not a wasted effort. What a truly crying shame!
As for the MATE Desktop itself, I think that still needs some clear messaging ... from "a voice of authority".
Hopefully, Martin is still invested in it, if not attached to it, to ensure his continued willingness to share his precious time and energies on guidance and wisdom regarding
how best to migrate the DM into the (pure?) Wayland world,
where the current DM components could most benefit from some dedicated development effort, and
which "3rd-party" Applications could be "adopted" as new additions to the Standard Applications Suite,
to expand the attractiveness and reach of UbuntuMATE.
Iāve been reading about that, so this is not just an Ubuntu MATE issue, it is becoming a trend on other flavors.
As far as I know from what I could find from official sources:
Lubuntu is effectively in āmaintenance modeā as they say on their blog:
We had substantially less development manpower than weāve had for previous releases, thus our primary focus has been keeping Lubuntu working as well as it has worked historically, rather than innovating new features.
Ubuntu MATEā¦ well, we all know. Itās always been a one-man effort. And the man apparently has moved on.
Even Kubuntu is facing some issues, as the main developer has been facing some difficulties both personal and job related (check out her blog for details).
I donāt know about Xubuntu, as I couldnāt find an official blog or some place that reports on details besides the new releases.
But not everything is lost: remember that years ago, Edubuntu was discontinued and a few years later got back to life.
There may be more problems in Linux land then we realize.
Debian Urgently Seeks Volunteers After Data Protection Team Resigns
By Bobby BorisovOnJanuary 6, 2026
Andreas Tille, a Debian Project Leader, recently sent an unexpected message to the Debian mailing lists, announcing that the project is urgently seeking new volunteers to rebuild its Data Protection Team after all current members stepped down, leaving the project without a dedicated group to handle privacy and data protection matters.
The Data Protection Team was established in 2018 in response to new European data protection legislation. Its role has been to act as a point of contact for external inquiries about what personal data the project holds and to advise Debian contributors on data protection obligations.
There must be more behind the full Team's resignation all at once.
Mass resignations don't happen because of "outsider-related" issues. Those only trigger a gradual emigration of critical resources!
They only happen because of "insider-related" issues.
So ... what happened behind the scenes ... at Debian ... that nobody is talking about ???