Things that are wrong with the community

[mircea]

@APolihron I don’t come on this forum so you can feel … I am really deeply sorry If I have done this to you.
I come on this forum like most of other users to complain about bugs and ask for help. So this things is in the nature of forums, even if you go on other kind of forums like car forums, people come there most to ask for help regarding they’re car issue, and if you go on that forum you will think that those cars are totally … so don’t take the forum to personally, don’t try to help everyone.
I try to complain like the MATE 18.04 has really big issues, but I know that are just small code tweaks and fix, that for user perspective can have big impact, but this are normal after such big work.
I know that you and little Mate Developer Team work so hard on at lest the last release, and I come to upgrade because of so much nice feature it has been added to it.

You know I am not an IT guy, just another field engineer with a little bit of passion in his personal IT, so compare with others I have more IT equipment, at least four desktop actively used, two home server (one online and one backup), 3 actively used laptops and 3 old and a little rarely used with some specific task, 2 Rasberry Pi (one used permanently as a router firewall) and one tablet, and except the tablet with Lubuntu all are running Mate Desktop, also servers one, as sometime is more quick to connect and work on them via tightvnc. My first beginning in UNIX/Linux word was with OpenSolaris home server, moved to Open Indiana. After some day because of poor hardware support, I decided to buy a new home server,( a HP Proliant Microserver Gen8) , and decided a switch to linux, as ZFS get support on it, so I don’t remember exactly but I started with Xubuntu and after some time decided to move to Mate, and I am using Mate from 3-4 years without any big issues, I even remember the switch to 16.04 when was an overhaul of Bluetooth stack, and it starts working, so even now I listen to music by passing digital content over Bluetooth to my power amplifier.
So I just get the comfort of Mate 16.04, that was just a little bit disturbed by upgrade to 18.04, otherwise I have not signed on this forum, so don’t take my complain really personally, I just exagerate to get somehow a quick update fix. but no success everybody wants quick, now, perfect and FREE or CHEAP , and if it is not like that we yell, scream,

[APolihron]

come on this forum like most of other users to complain about bugs and ask for help.

This is my point. Yes you can come on a forum for help but a forum is not a place where you complain about bugs. For that it’s launchpad. But if you need help you can message me in private (ro)

[vkareh]

advise developers that are too deeply affected by such offenses to restrict their activity to technical expert talks in the forums

In an ideal world, yes, this could be most wise. Currently though, I often find out about bugs and issues here that are not reported either on launchpad or github. In more than one occasion we’ve managed to make improvements based on community conversations that were not “expert-level discussions”. Also, being part of this community can be a powerful motivator for improving MATE in general. If developers hide and don’t interact with the community, then who are we building this stuff for?

Every comment on any parts of this software (project) - whether he was directly involved in this part or not - is taken as a personal offense.

Fair enough. I’ll file a bug for myself

[7even]

advise developers that are too deeply affected by such offenses to restrict their activity to technical expert talks in the forums

In an ideal world, yes, this could be most wise. Currently though, I often find out about bugs and issues here that are not reported either on launchpad or github. In more than one occasion we’ve managed to make improvements based on community conversations that were not “expert-level discussions”. Also, being part of this community can be a powerful motivator for improving MATE in general. If developers hide and don’t interact with the community, then who are we building this stuff for?

Don’t get me wrong, as I highly appreciate direct contact of developers to the users. This always is the most effective way to improve the product.
All I wanted to say is, that if management of emotions fails in this direct contact, an appropriate rescue would be to avoid it. Usually there are many (non developer) people around who talk to the users on one side and to the developers on the other side; they (mostly) aren’t in danger of getting personally affected by too rude criticism and can give far more precise input to the developers - there only is the risk that the original input of users is slightly altered (which is why I wrote the first paragraph).

[vkareh]

@7even - yeah, you are right about this.

In this respect the community should probably self-organize around this. To ensure that level of heightened-emotion separation between developers/QAs and other community members, the devs/QAs would need to trust that community leaders and forum moderators will have regular check-ins with them, as well as file bugs and serve as mediators.

This is not that far-fetched. We currently have very active forum leaders, admins, and moderators. They do regularly check-in outside of the platform when issues arise. I think as a team we could do more to help educate users as to how the release cycles work, and more efficient/effective ways of filing bugs and feature requests.

Maybe we should have a bug filing template that the users can readily access as part of the posting process, that would also direct them to launchpad… not sure how that would work on this platform.

[ouroumov]

Closing this at the request of OP.