I can’t see that happen, and its not possible given the installer Ubuntu MATE uses.
A snapd free install was added by Lubuntu back in Dec-2023, and three flavors used/provided it for 24.04, 24.10 & 25.04 (and another flavor achieved it using a different method), and its still there for questing so I can’t see it removed for 25.10, but I’m not sure any flavor will have that option by the time 26.04 is released; but only time will tell (it still maybe possible using the other flavor install method anyway).
Ubuntu MATE has somewhat suffered recently with a lack of contributors anyway, so I don’t see people stepping up to help with installer work.
Removing snapd or snap infrastructure has been blogged about extensively by many Ubuntu developers, members, so installing a system by a method that includes snapd can easily be changed to become snapd free anyway, so the installer question (snapd or not) shouldn’t be a problem anyway in my view.
I see that this is from 2017 but it seems to have more recent replies as well, so I believe it is still an active thread.
My two wishes for Ubuntu MATE future releases are as follows:
If possible, incorporate a solution to the GTK4 application theming consistency issue similar to (or potentially use exactly) Linux Mint’s Lib Adapta approach. I don’t know the technicalities but, from watching a video about Linux Mint 22.2, this seems to be a potential solution for GTK-based desktop environments attempting to emulate the “traditional” look and feel (such as Cinnamon, MATE, Xfce). This has worked out better for me in UM 25.04 “Plucky Puffin” but the GTK4 apps still do not seem to grab the accent colour (it recognises that I want to use a dark theme and that’s it).
Welcome Application and Software Boutique. I realise these need time and resources which are not completely available, and have been discussed in depth in the forums, but I figure I’d include it for honesty’s sake. If I knew how to code, I would help, but I don’t know much besides how to edit some config files in bash or vim script.
Although I can be considered somewhat of an advanced/experienced user, I also dream of the return of the welcome app because all the things I usually do after installation ( on whatever linux system ) were in Ubuntu-MATE neatly collected under a bunch of buttons in the welcome screen. (Including semi automatic install of libdvdcss). And ofcourse, because of that, it saves time and work.
Even for me it has always put a smile on my face to interact with this beautifully polished and highly useful piece of software. It's what they usually call a "chefs-kiss". It is a highlight that helped tremendously in making ubuntu-MATE famous. and I have no doubt that it helped a lot of starting Linux enthousiasts making their first steps in Linux successful.
There are also quite some reviews about Ubuntu-MATE, mentioning the Welcome app as a piece of software that makes Ubuntu-MATE stand out from the rest of the crowd. I certainly agree with that
Wish number two:
A decent installer would be nice. Preferrably something reliable, that means: not based on flutter code running in a snap trying to hopelessly outrace the diskchecker or the network agent while stuttering and failing half the time. I'd rather use a reliable ncurses based installer that 'just works'™ than having a "modern" bling-bling UI that half the time shits itself within minutes after issuing the install command
wish number three:
A snap opt-out option in the installer.
It's getting a bit tedious when you constantly have to remove this deluxe-sandbox-system from laptops with low resources in a tiresome step-by-step way and the need to go full crowbar to remove the remaining 'hooks'.
I am fully in support for snaps for the regular/casual user but in a lot of cases I am the only one that is able to judge if its install on a certain piece of non-common hardware is justified (desirable/appropriate/advisable/preferrable) or not.
wish number four: Migrating step by step from GTK to Qt.
I am all for community compatible and preferrably standards compliant interoperability in a universal way that GNOME/GTK totally doesn't
wish number five:
Permanent opt-out option of the never ending nagging of ESM support.
If I want it, I use it. If I don't want it; respect my choice of not wanting it. So stop nagging!
Ofcourse I don't expect this all to happen but a person is free to dream right ?
You have listed all the things I want from Ubuntu MATE as well ! I was meaning to post something similar but I just haven’t gotten enough time nor vocabulary since I’ve been busy at work but these things you’ve listed are brilliant !
Especially the Qt migration, I just think we simply need it as GTK keeps breaking people’s themes and the further the “rift” from the main source goes the worse the things get with support and Qt seems to be the best route as it looks like the option would offer even more customization and personalization as well
Thats a mighty wish; I cant see it happening without a fork and someone to drive that change. I don't know if it even makes sense - may even be easier to start from LXQt and aim for feature parity (LXQt already has wayland sessions).
Calamares seems to be the installer of choice for a lot of Operating Systems. I have used it on other OS’s. It works okay but the OS still makes a difference. It had problems on Parrot, but worked well on Sparky. Parrot had problems with installation even before going to Calamares. It was somewhat difficult to get it installed from the first release. Parrot did warn not for new users in their Documentation/ installation guide.
I agree about sandboxing, it has given me fits, especially with printer installation.
I am not really familiar with the differences or the amount of Debian and Ubuntu support of Qt compared to GTK as a somewhat causal user, Here is what I found. For me I just want it to work.
GTK and Qt are both popular GUI toolkits used for developing applications on Linux and other platforms. GTK is simpler and primarily used for applications in the GNOME desktop environment, while Qt is more powerful and versatile, supporting multiple platforms and offering a wider range of features. baeldung.com Y Combinator
Overview of GTK and Qt
GTK and Qt are two popular GUI toolkits used for developing applications on Linux and other platforms. They provide the necessary components to create graphical user interfaces.
Key Differences
Licensing
Toolkit
License Type
Commercial Use
GTK
LGPL
Allowed
Qt
Dual-licensed (LGPL/GPL)
Allowed under LGPL; requires GPL for proprietary
Programming Language
Toolkit
Implementation Language
GTK
C
Qt
C++
Community and Ecosystem
Toolkit
Community Size
Notable Applications
GTK
Larger community
GNOME, GIMP
Qt
Smaller community
KDE, Qt Creator
Features and Usability
Toolkit
Complexity
Customization
Documentation
GTK
Simpler
Limited
Good
Qt
More complex
Highly customizable
Excellent
Conclusion
GTK is often preferred for its simplicity and larger community, while Qt is favored for its versatility and extensive features. The choice between them depends on the specific needs of the application and the developer's familiarity with each toolkit.
I myself am not that familiar with either as much as I’d like to be but what I do know it that Qt seems to have a better/smoother handling and less stuff breaking last time I checked - I mean every system has some bugs and issues but I just feel it’s getting us nowhere being stuck on older GTK since we could have all these things we have and more with Qt base
Maybe the jump is just wishful thinking tho haha I don’t know
I wish that was true, the problem is not the older GTK (which keeps on working without a hitch and staying out of the way) but the newer versions of it, the GNOME 4x infected versions that are getting more and more a problem with every "upgrade".
Qt has come up as a wishlist item for many years. I've talked about this before, but moving MATE to Qt is impossible.
It's not even because it's hard, or because it's a lot of work. It's specifically because MATE itself is entirely written with GLib and GTK.
It would be far easier, faster, and the result would be significantly better if you just write an entire DE from scratch using Qt than if you were to try porting MATE...
Remember that MATE is a fork of GNOME - literally the folks who maintain GTK - and to this day we keep porting code from parts of GNOME into MATE to bring things up to date, add missing features, etc.
You know calamares has been used by flavor(s) of Ubuntusince 18.10; when it was first used by Lubuntu. It’s been used by Lubuntu, Ubuntu Studio, Kubuntu and Ubuntu Unity for different releases (3 for 24.04 & later).
Qt is owned by the Qt Group who provide it free for some uses (GNU Linux) albeit with restrictions, and paid (license fees) in other circumstances as they’re a company (profits are part of their business).
The GNU project didn’t like the idea of relying on a library/toolkit for Free & Open Source software being owned by a for profit company who could change rules anytime they wished. As a result, they didn’t use it and created the GIMP Toolkit (GTK) (for their gimp program. Later when they looked at creating the GNOME Desktop, they used that Gimp Toolkit (GTK), and in time that toolkit was renamed GTK+ (GIMP+[GNOME] Toolkit). As time progressed, the GNOME Desktop started dominating development, so GTK+ (with emphasis on Gimp) was just renamed GTK (reference to GIMP/GNOME dropped) which is today.
I don’t see Qt as more powerful and versatile; it’s owned by a company and thus has that hanging over any FOSS usage of it, and thus to me the benefits of GTK are the FREEDOM related to being full open source and not owned by a corporation.
Whilst the Qt Group has loosened their control at various times throughout history so people keep using it; they have never fully given up their ownership or their control.
But maybe that’s just me, who does see a difference in the ‘Free as in freedom, and not free as in free beer’.
Oh yes, so much is clear. I'm not advocating for MATE to move to Qt, that would indeed impossible without rewriting everything. I don't see that as viable at all
I was talking about only moving away from the 3rd party misbehaving GTK4 apps, like, for instance, transmission-gtk (which lost support for ayatana under GTK4).
It also means that in that case a better Qt integration (like themes, trash suppport) is quite important because it will be a dual toolkit desktop then, which in itself seems to me quite a massive undertaking which can only be done if enough developers feel that it is worth it.
Do a basic installation to a “small” SSD or fast USB3 stick, configure as you desire, and install your required support apps. Then stop installing. Use gparted to copy (clone) the boot partition and root partition setup by the installer. Currently this may be the only way to set up a multi-boot system, given the sorry state of the 24.04 installer, Boot-Repair and grub-customizer will then become your friends.
Depending on where your clones end up you may need to edit /etc/hosts, and /etc/hostname, and possibly need to change the UUID of the partitions, gparted can do it but so far I’ve never seen the need.
I’ve been finding it much harder to find systems that can boot from a DVD or BluRay than systems that can boot from a USB3 stick. I’ve got a lot of IOT-class systems that the only way to get an optical disk reader would be via USB3 to SATA adapter.
My experience has been that optical storage has been a bigger flop, albeit with much larger market penetration, than “magnetic bubble memory” remember those?
Actually, GIMP was created not by the GNU Project but by two college students at the University of California at Berkeley: Spencer Kimball and Peter Mattis. It was their semester project while they were at the university’s Experimental Computing Facility (XCF – that’s where the GIMP image file format’s name came from). GTK came about because the user interface library the GIMP had been using, Motif, wasn’t really designed with image editors in mind. (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIMP#History)
