On The Matter of Development and Ease of Use

Development Discussion
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First, the option to use a different OS is tantamount to “Development” of this OS, other than Windows that is. I admit, I am lost in Linux/XYZ. I’ve been working with computers since 1983, but my forte is research, not building a OS.

I came to Linux to take back my computer. When Win 7 arrived, it was clear to me that the new goal of MS is to have us buy a computer (of any kind but preferably theirs and they are working on that angle). Then, after we pay for that, and the OS, we give them all rights to privacy via our(?) digital device, or the option is to uninstall the OS. Read their terms.

So I jumped into Linux/Ubuntu and Mate (I’ll call them LUM). There is obviously a much bigger learning curve with LUM than Windows. I find the terminology, the methods used to add new programs/software/scripts/apps (whatever they are called here), and support to be a whole new world. I found I had to pour over reams of pages and more pages of techinezed explanations and directions just to get over the install barriers. It seems that some people want to show off their knowledge instead of KISS.

I believe that if LUM are to really succeed, it has to be easier to install, maintain and as easy to use as Windows sans the Stalkware.

Don’t get me wrong, I love LUM, and it’s attention to security and privacy. But it’s a big curve, and much of the lingo is new and confusing. Maybe I need a 2018 Beginners Guide to Linux Lingo and another guide explaining what is meant by some of the processes suggested - such as line commands and just how to get to the command line, and other simple things. I’ll have to look, read, and learn - I get it, but most instructions are for the technically inclined with Linux already.

I see things like “Ubuntu MATE 16.04 LTS Xenial Xerus” and wonder if I shouldn’t just get an Etch-A-Sketch where I’ll feel more at home :slight_smile:

I find it all very confusing. It seems to me that LUM is for those that want to really drill down into an OS and have the time, interest, ability, and inclination to do so.

Trolls are reminded that one day, not so long ago, you too were a newbie…

Just sayin s’all

i.

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Have you taken a look at https://tutorials.ubuntu.com/ by any chance?

You very much need to “unlearn” what you’ve been used to in the past, but if my 80 year old father can use “LUM” as you call it, without more than a couple of support interventions a year, I’m sure you can too.

The tutorials are out there. Find the ones that are right for you, both in terms what you’d like to learn, and the manner in which you’d like to do so.

Good luck and welcome!

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Windows has an advantage here because people don’t have to install it; it comes preinstalled.

I suggest when people use any flavor of Linux (or BSD, for that matter) that they either install onto hardware that is at least one generation old so there’s more of a chance that their hardware has been “mainstreamed” by the time of install, or that they buy a new laptop from Dell or System 76 (a few others also exist) that already have some form of Linux installed.

As far as usage goes, I think Ubuntu MATE (and stock Ubuntu) gets a lot of it right. I help maintain a few open source projects and I can tell you that it’s a ton of work to create, maintain, and document even the tiniest corner of a sliver of a nibble of some small subset of something useful. I’m not trying to make excuses for anything or anyone, but personally I’m in daily shock that anything like Linux and its various ecosystems even exists. I’ve been using Linux since 1995, and I think only recently would I feel comfortable recommending any distro to casual users. When I do recommend a distro to casual users, it’s Ubuntu MATE. It has issues, like everything, but TBH it really kind of beats Windows up and down for a lot of tasks: as an email portal and web browsing portal for your grandparents, for example, it just cannot be beat.

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Yes and Yes

I moved to Linux permanently after XP ended, only 4 years ago
I did get very stressed and couldn't work things out a few times in the beginning
Most of the time it was getting stuck with not knowing one bit of terminology
or needing to unlearn something from Windows
I did a lot of digging into Windows and had a lot to re-learn

'Terminal' if you want to type in commands
But you shouldn't need to do much of that if it is all up and running

If you have problems and need to ask for help here or elsewhere online, you may get asked to copy/paste some commands in and out of terminal to get information or resolve a problem.
It is a faster and more accurate way to get the job done
It can be very difficult to accurately explain how to find items in menus and windows
Even harder when many on this forum may be having problems with english too

There is a lot of good information in the MATE Welcome screen links
If reading isn't enough for getting something worked out, youtube can sometimes have good short tutorials

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Maybe it’s me, but I never had much trouble adjusting to Ubuntu. Started out with 12.04, switched to Linux Mint Mate 17.03 when Ubuntu 14.04 was a bit too big for my marginal computer and installed Ubuntu Mate on my girlfriends notebook, updating to 16.04. Liked all the variations available with Ubuntu Mate and have switched myself and family members over to Ubuntu Mate 18.04.1. I carry a thumb drive around and do installs like Johnny Appleseed. Going over to get my daughter and her family up to speed tomorrow morning. I find Ubuntu Mate (and other Linux distros I’ve tried) to be easier and more intuitive than Windows. My Windows knowledge stopped with Win7 and I found playing around in stores with Win 8 and 10 to be confusing. What I have now seems very straight forward and more like Win 7 than Win 7 is like 8 and 10-- not that I’ve spent much time on Microsoft in the last six years or so.

I’m a 73 year old geezer and if I can get this anyone can. I sometimes think a lot of Windows experience might actually be counter productive in making the leap.

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I do not believe you are taking into consideration the difficulty of installing Microsoft Windows. Really, it’s a lot of the same stuff; if you want to install Windows via USB instead of using a CD media, which would be slower in most circumstances then you need to figure out how to write the media to a USB drive, which specialized tools exist for that.

If we discount the difficulty of writing an existing Windows disc image to USB, and go right to Microsoft’s WIndows 10 MCT then you still need to specify a USB device, which some people might have difficulty doing, then after that they have to possibly install drivers for certain hardware to be seen during the installation process. Barring that, you still have to define other parametres before installation, which users might not be that intimate with, After installation, you still have to define what data goes to Microsoft, if those switches to turn off certain things mean anything at all. This is before you even try out the system.

I would consider installation of both systems into blank media on par, with Windows 10 MCT giving it an edge in ease but with almost anything else you could install edging out with versatility. You can actually try the system from a variety of media before you commit to installation. This is practically unheard of for Windows users, and a refreshing change versus Microsoft’s ideology of buy it before you try it.

As for everythng else you mentioned, of course it’s going to be different, I’ve been on Android my entire life but that doesn’t mean I can use Apple iOS as if it’s second nature. (In fact the system is so different, I find myself frustrated with its various design decisions because I had not learned and grown use to them yet.)

However, the difficulty you speak of could be eased with the use of open-source tools the likes of what you could install in Windows. And if you get really use to installing store apps via Windows Powershell, or even SSH into a Linux shell you can become even more familiar with the command line. And Bash on Windows 10 is also an excellent stepping stone into the weird and wonderful world of Linux shells and scripting, so you can already get your feet wet if you’re a Win10 user before you even touch a disc, though you don’t need to know any command line stuff to get started, install programs and use your system almost like you did in Windows.

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Seconded… totally agree. :slight_smile:

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(You might want to reply to my post if you are agreeing with it, rather than the OP. Just in case.)

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No way! I want the “totally agree”! :grin: