Thanks for this advice; mine is in the process of upgrading so I have to go. Haha.
I think I misunderstood the release notes; these are essentially the 'production' release notes issued early. So the upgrade instruction from release 19.04 are there, but that really represents the situation when 19.10 releases not now.
Thanks everyone!
in Ubuntu Mate 19.10, Firefox has some problem with window buttons
Firefox has some problem with window buttons
I've never seen the buttons next to the tabs like that, is that a Firefox setting or a MATE setting? Are you using marco or Compiz or something else? What theme is it? Are you on a regular density screen or HiDPI?
Could you try different themes and see if it still happens? Also, try moving the buttons to the right side and see if it also happens there.
Sorry for all the questions, I'm trying to figure out whether this is the theme's fault, marco's fault, or Firefox's fault 
just a thought I know Firefox was planning on switching to csd on linux could this be that
So after trying it out live I went ahead and upgraded my new desktop (more on that another time) to 19.10 beta from 19.04 although it took all night (thanks to our super slow internet) it worked fine, panel switching is indeed greatly improved, the only issue I got was occasionally after tweaking the Mutiny layout, but not saving the modifications, when one switched to something else (the netbook layout was the major one that caused issues) and back, Mutiny wasn't quite right, but after switching to a couple other layouts and back it was, but that doesn't bother me because I don't use Mutiny anyways I was just trying it out, I love the new indicators and have been wanting them for a while, I even used the date time indicator before on 18.04, even though it pulled in a boatload of dependencies, this really is one of the best releases in a while, I love Gnome MPV and Evolution, and have used both before and imo are far better choices, one thing I would like to see would be an Adaption of the Yaru theme in green for MATE soon, and not for MATE, but I would like to see Evolution's setup process a bit easier, but otherwise this is a great release, also I'm not super enamored with any of the menus but I hope to change that soon
edit: the Bluetooth indicator just disappeared not sure why, but it crashed I don't use Bluetooth much anyways so not a huge problem but it did
This is Firefox 69.0.2 using CSD, it happens with Mate Radiant and Mate Ambiant themes, Firefox with CSD was working fine on Ubuntu 18.04,
Mate Ambiant theme
Thanks for the tip regarding -d option, I use command in the past without knowing what it really do, just because it was mention on beta releases, and just copy paste it was easy than typing the command in terminal, and forgot about it... shame on me as I use Linux for quite some time 
So proceeding to upgrade right no on one laptop, and when time on all my PC...
Installing VirtualBox using Oracle ppa is not available for 19.10, but when I try to install it using the one from Ubuntu get the following error, I use kernel 5.3.0-16
vboxdrv.ko:
Running module version sanity check.
modinfo: ERROR: missing module or filename.
- Original module
- No original module exists within this kernel
- Installation
- Installing to /lib/modules/5.3.0-16-generic/updates/dkms/
vboxnetadp.ko:
Running module version sanity check.
modinfo: ERROR: missing module or filename.
- Original module
- No original module exists within this kernel
- Installation
- Installing to /lib/modules/5.3.0-16-generic/updates/dkms/
vboxnetflt.ko:
Running module version sanity check.
modinfo: ERROR: missing module or filename.
- Original module
- No original module exists within this kernel
- Installation
- Installing to /lib/modules/5.3.0-16-generic/updates/dkms/
vboxpci.ko:
Running module version sanity check.
modinfo: ERROR: missing module or filename.
- Original module
- No original module exists within this kernel
- Installation
- Installing to /lib/modules/5.3.0-16-generic/updates/dkms/
depmod.........
DKMS: install completed.Keyboard indicator letters are blurry and does not scale well with panel height
Ok, I didn't realize this was CSD. Those are not drawn by marco. The issue then must be either on Firefox or GTK. The themes have a CSS file that could be modified to compensate for that.
I'm assuming this doesn't happen with other themes, right?
You might then want to file a bug in https://github.com/ubuntu-mate/ubuntu-mate-artwork as that's where the Ambiant/Radiant themes are handled.
Actually it will happen with all gtk 3 themes that support csd, it's a setting in firefox that needs changed, I believe Firefox switched to csd as a default instead of as an option, although there is an option to disable it
Keyboard indicator letters are blurry and does not scale well with panel height
@Med_Medin, could you report that as a bug on https://github.com/mate-desktop/libmatekbd please?
When I use the multiple desktop applet in the deskbar (top bar) and I switch to desk 2.3 or 4 the deskbar vanishes and I can't even get back to my first screen - except for when I have a process running on my first screen that is displayed in the dock applet which I have in the side bar (Mutiny layout) - otherwise I'm stuck.
Any ideas for a workaround?
Also the weather app doesn't have the option to access my town like most other weather apps do - can that be changed or improved?
The time app in the deskbar doesn't display the date in numbers - can that be changed or is ther a workaround for that?
OK then, the issue is not on our themes. This bug should be filed on launchpad and tagged for Firefox and/or GTK.
It's impossible to configure time and date format, I want to show "dayname Month HH:min", I know the old applet is replaced by this new one, but where is the location of this new applet in dconf ?
After upgrade ...
I personally think that current Indicator Applet Complete and Mate Advanced Menu icons are too small compared with toolbar wideness (for a bar wideness of 20 pixels and 11 on font size witch I currently run). I barely see them when others are easily "read"
Other icons have correct sizes, I put another panel picture for reference.
I know that a lot of work has been put into it so I appreciate it, maybe in the next release Indicator applet complete icons can be made larger and reduce padding and reduce spacing between them, and of course, as other people like here mention I prefer to be present along clock also the date. Padding and spacing I can reduce it myself using CSD, as I have done it in 18.04, but I don't know, for now, how to adjust the icon sizing to be back like the original in 18.04, witch I consider be the right size (as following pictures from other pc, with padding and spacing modified to 0 on Mate 19.04).
In rest everything look grate with this release, ...
The flip done timed out bug fix is included in the beta. Great!
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1685442
You can check the Software Boutique that is Natively pre-installed in Ubuntu Mate
Or you can download the Debian Package Manager
And check all the missing Codecs