Ubuntu Mate LTSP - Control clients with epoptes

Hello Steve,

sorry for answering so late, i have to learn for my A level.

I have made now a whole video about the installation process. There were no bugs etc.
Later, if i have more time, i will read all your posts :smile:
Here it is:

Matthias

Edit:

I read everything now.
As already said, Iā€™ve created this LTSP Setup for my school. The perpairing steps like installing the server and all its programs were done at home in a VM, like shown in the video.

One tought: Do you have a additional DHCP Server running in your network? You have to turn it off, or put the clients with the server in a seperate network. (2 networccards are perfect. You only have to route the internet between them, which is pretty easy with squid.)

When i was done with my VM I converted the VDI HDD file to a RAW-Image:

VBoxManage internalcommands converttoraw ubuntu.vdi ubuntu_raw.img

And put it on the server via a live cd:

dd if=ubuntu_raw.img of=/dev/sda bs=4M

Did a restart and everything was recognized.

Edit 2:

Since some windows in the videos are in german, feel free to ask, if you donā€™t undestand something.

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Followed the video to the letter. Didnā€™t work. Canā€™t remember where now precisely, But one of the commands you fed in during the installation of ltsp simply got thrown back at me with ā€œunknown commandā€ or ā€œunknown processā€. Pretty much a re-run, in terms of something not working the same as indicted in the instruction as when I followed your original instructions.

Meanwhile, I should note that my working VM ltsp network was made by me with an old ubuntu 12.04 iso a test run. It also happens to be the one I used on bare metal the last time i had ltsp running on my own machine

However, since the version of Ubuntu 12.04 that I used to make that VM ltsp network has since been upgraded several times, I decided got hold of the latest Ubuntu 12.04.5 and set about intalling it and ltsp in the way I have done successfully several time previously, both as VMs and on bare metal.

Lo and behold, the latest version of ubuntu 12.04 now doesnā€™t work either in precisely the same way that all subsequent versions of ubuntu do not work with ltsp!

I have also tried to install Edubuntu. In this event, after installation, the wireless connection to the internet does not work and I have spent three days on the ******** interent getting absolutely nowhere with regards to any kind of answer as to why! Furthermore, the response on the actual Ubuntu main forum regarding any and all requests for advice on this issue has been deafening silence!

I have found out that if i disable the eth connection on the edubuntu installation, then the internet works, but as soon as I reconnect to the eth, the internet connection dies, although the network manager applet is indicating a connection is live. Furthermore, even with the eth connection, no client will boot anyway! And this from a distro that boasts ltsp out of the box! So, enough with Edubuntu.

So, I went back to the Ubuntu main site and downloaded the Ubuntu 12.04.5 alternative cd, which allows for an ltsp installation out of the box (apparently). The installation duly broke when it came to building the ltsp client image. However, it allowed me to skip the ltsp image build and proceed with the rest of the installation. Once installed, I issued the build image command and it duly built it. However, when I then went to load a client, it would not boot. This was despite the server showing no issues with the isc-dhcp server. So, another couple of hours lost.

I then thought Iā€™d use my old iso I originally used to install my Ubuntu 12.04 with LTSP (and also recently made a vm network with and used that to make a new install. It still didnā€™t work! i can only assume this was because I had it set to provide updates while installing and that these updates contain whatever the hell it is that is stopping ltsp from working. I tested this by going to my Vm and doing a full software update and sudo apt-get upgrade. Surprise, surprise, it broke the ltsp on the VM network as well!

For information, the instructions I have always followed for installing ltsp are from this site, below:

https://www.thefanclub.co.za/how-to/how-create-ubuntu-1104-x64-ltsp-server-32bit-thin-clients

All of the configuration on my system is identical to that shown on the website. This worked perfectly up to 12.04. It has not worked for me on any distribution since, nor have I been able to find any instructions that do work since, including yours. The last time I had ltsp working was on my old 12.04 machine immediately prior to installing ubuntu mate 14.10 a few months back.

I currently have my Ubuntu mate 14.04 64 bit image back on my machine with ltsp installed with exactly the configuration settings as indicated in the website above. If the OP, or anyone else on here, can indicate what the hell is worng with those settings so that I can get my ltsp up and running, I wpuld be very grateful

Okay. moved forwars slightly.

Can now more or less get a stable isc-server connection going.

The order in whoch I must do stuff is:

Start the server.

Start a full fat laptop (happens to have ubuntu mate on it) and connect it to the eth0 (my ltsp connection.

a few second later, both machine report the conection as live.

If I issue the ā€œsudo /etc/init.d/isc-dhcp-server restartā€ command at this point, AND ONLY AT THIS POINT, will the isc-dhcpd-server start.

I can then fire up virtualbox and start a client, which will fully boot into a fat client environment,

so far so good.

so, my next step is to install the mate environment and some othe rprograms on the fat lcient image. So, I close down the client qnd chroot into the image. However, as soon as i try to add repositories or install software, it is apprent that there is no internet connection getting to the image. At whch point I try and go on the internet on the server desktop. guess what, no wireless internet! Just like the edubuntu installation!. But, as soon as I disconnect the eth0 connection, the internet comes back on.

However, I assume that at least i can install the software on the image with the ltsp network down and then fire it back up by reconnecting the eth0 card to my laptop, right?

Wrong.

With the eth0 disconnected, when i chrooted into the ltsp client image and issued the command to add the ubuntu mate repository, I still got the following error:

root@stephen-desktop:/# sudo apt-add-repository ppa:ubuntu-mate-dev/ppa
sudo: unable to resolve host stephen-desktop
Cannot add PPA: ā€˜ppa:ubuntu-mate-dev/ppaā€™.
Please check that the PPA name or format is correct.
root@stephen-desktop:/#

So, even though the internert is running on the server, the client image still cant see it even though it is not actively running at the time.

yet more info:

I have found a way to have my eth0 and wireless internet connected simultaneously. I have to do the following:

turn off wifi from the network manager

Unplug the cable form the eth0 and then plug it back in, at which point the eh0 connection is established between the server and laptop. At which point i can restart the isc-dhcp serv.

turn on wifi from the network manager. It comes on and the internet is working.

However, if i then go to boot the vm client it wont boot.

so back to square one.

either i get a vbootable client, but have no internet qccess on either the server or client. Or, I have internet access on the server, but no client booting. and no capacity to update the ltsp image in either event.

Okay, I now have set up and have got reliably running an ltsp server and client on Ubuntu Mate 14.04. Though, I have had considerable difficulty getting it up and running. I initially followed this instructional (https://www.thefanclub.co.za/how-to/how-create-ubuntu-1104-x64-ltsp-server-32bit-thin-clients). It works, but I have had to do some extra stuff to get it going.

Firslty, I had to remove the network manager and then reinstall network-manager-gnome. I also had to leave network management to ā€œfalseā€ in the network manager config file.

Secondly, I had to copy the ltsp dhcp.conf fileā€™s contents over to the etc/dhcpd/dhcp.conf file. Unless those contents are in there as well, it will not work. Secondly, I have to have a non-ltsp full fat client machine physically linked to eth0 in order for my dhcpd and tftp servers to start. I start them with a startup script on the server (though it has to have a prefixed sleep command of around 30 seconds other wise the servers will still fail to start properly). Obviously, I have to start the full-fat client eth0-connected machine first, so the server has got an active connection from bootup, otherwise the dhcpd server will fail to start.

Having once started the dhcpd and tftp servers in the way described, I then fire up a virtualbox VM ltsp client on the server and it boots successfully. Once it is booted, I can disconnet the bare metal full fat client from eth0, I mentioned earlier. From this point, any physical ltsp client connected to eth0 on the server will now boot. If I tried to start the vm ltsp client before an active connection was established with the full fat bare metal client, as described above, it would fail for the reasons already given. However once booted, and then kept open, the ltsp vm client keeps the dhcpd server connection alive for any other real world ltsp clients. Itā€™s a bit messy, but it works. This means I can then shut down the full-fat client that was initially connected to eth0.

Given all of the above, what I am wanting is a way to establish some kind of fake eth0 connection at bootup so that I can start the dhcpd and tftp servers without a real world machine being connected to eth0 and so they wont fail because they will ā€œthinkā€ that the connection is active and so will start. At which point, the VM ltsp client should boot. Indeed, it may even mean I donā€™t need the VM ltsp client as a ā€œseedā€ client to keep the dhcpd connection alive for all other real world ltsp clients.

I should add, for completeness, when I say, that without the full-fat client machine being connected at bootup on eth0, the dhcpd server ā€œfailsā€, what I mean is that is does not ā€œappearā€ to fail. That is to say, it gives the ā€œOKā€ in a terminal as if it has started. However, the ltsp vm client (or a real world ltsp client) will not boot as a consequence of not recieving an address. Only when I boot the dhcpd server with a normal machine attached to eth0, and then start the dhcpd and tftp servers, will the ltsp vm client subsequently boot.

One final weirdness:

as for updating the ltsp image with new software, I obviously do this by chrooting to the image. However, I am unable to downl;oad any software from the internet/repositories etc, unless the dhcpd server is prioperly up and running. However, that can only happen if there is an active connection on eth0. Obviously I donā€™t want an ltsp client running while I am updating the image. So, in order to do any updating, I have to close all ltsp clients and reconnect my full fat client machine to eth0.

Thatā€™s it, Any advice folks?

Edit to add:

I should say, this was NEVER and issue up till Ubuntu 13. so what did Cannonical do differently form that po8int then? My guess is itā€™sthe bloody network managerā€¦

Rightā€¦

God help me but I have got a working LTSP system running fat clients. Ubuntu Mate on both server and clients. Been running it for several hourse now, pushing it to see where it might breakā€¦and it has not broken. No daft VM workarounds required to get up it and running. Server runs properly straight from bootup.

Got a couple of significant remaining niggles:

  1. If a fat client is left and goes to locked screen, it is not accepting the userā€™s password to unlock. The only option being to reboot. Iā€™ve had a look on the internet and this is a problem with a number of LTSP admins.

  2. When a fat client logs in, the wireless internet connection is not active and it has to be called up from the network manager and the router password has to be entered. This needs to be seamlessly active at login without the need for a password. Once the password has been entered, the connection is active and works. However, another dialog box then comes up asking for an admin password of some description. Neither the users nor the admin password are accepted. However, if I just close the box, nothing bad happens and the internet connection remains active. I need to find out what this is about and stop it happening

There are a number of other lower priority software tweaks I would like to implement, but thereā€™s no hurry on that front.

When I have resolved the internet connection and screen lock issues, I will post up a comprehensive step by step tutorial with pictures and vids.

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Short answeres, because i don't have much time:

1) the client wants to unlock the computer with a local password. Since there are server accounts this is a problem. My workaround i'm using is to have ltsp-remote apps enabled and replace the screenlock command with "ltsp-remote-apps i3lock". The screensaver gets started on the server and uses the server password for the client to unlock. It is also displayed locally. (same thing with passwd run locally. Isn't working either.)

2) You can hardcode the wifi connection and let it be enabled after a user logs in. So that there is no activity required. Do you use the wifi for internet? Why don't you route it through the server? Faster and Easier.

Good luck with that.

Matthias

- gesendet von meinem Smartphone

Hello Matthias

How, precisely, do I replace the screenlock command with ā€œltsp-remote-apps i3lockā€. Is this a command i must enter in a terminal? If so, is it in the ltsp image or on the server?

How, precisely, do I hardcode the wifi connection?. Iā€™d already surmised that is what was necessary. What I need to know is precisely how.

The reason I am wanting wifi on the fat clients is because fat clientsā€™ streaming video runs properly. On thin clients, with the wifi connection coming from the server, streaming video is unwatchably poor in fullscreen mode on the client. Or, are you suggesting that fat clients can also get their wifi from the sever but, being fat clients, the video quality is still as good as it would be with thier own independant connection? If so, then please explain precisely how this is achieved.

Unbelievably good news to report.

I have just re-implemented LTSP using a single nic setup following the instructions from here:

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp

No wireless connection password issues or, indeed, any other issues from what I can see. No messing around with setting up the network addresses as it does it all for you. No chrooting required to maintain different software updates to the server and client image. What you have on the sever is what you get on the client, just like a thin client. Itā€™s as a simple as that. You just have to run an update command to update the client if you have put something new on the sever. Howevr, a simple addition to a config file excludes software from the client if you wish. Everything, including internet connection is routed via an external domestic router common in all households. I dont even need to use ethernet cabling around the building as I can hitch a ride on my mains electrical ring using powerline adapters.

God, it was so easy to set upā€¦

Took all of twenty minutes to setup and get the clients running. And, most importantly, live streaming video (iplayer etc) running perfectly in all clients at full screen.

Incredible!

Okay, will definitely reproduce the above link to instuctions as a step by step idiotā€™s guide to setting this up. That is to say, the guide will be aimed at paople like me!

I can now promote this to the educational institution where I work with confidence.

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update:

Iā€™ve been running LTSP with no hitches for a week or two now. I have also now installed Epoptes LTSP managment system and am looking to install a whole school management system as well.

On the basis of the above, I now feel reasonably confident to write up a full instructional for PNP LTSP on Ubuntu Mate 14.04 LTS. I will spend a few evenings doing it and will post it up on a new thread in due course.

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I would really like to see this happen. Always wanted to learn about LTSP

I have read your ā€œHow To MATE+LTSPā€ . It is great work you have done. I have a problem on client with MATE desktop environment. Screen get locked after Ideal time out screen and unable to find a solution so for. Would you help me on the issue.

Regards,
Javed

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Hi Javed,

yeah had the same problem. You just have to remove the mate-locker from the client image. The original locker is not able to use the remote user password from the server.

If you still want a automatic screen lock, you should try to run i3lock over ltsp-remote-apps. It's working for me fine.

Sent from my Cyanogen phone

Hi Mattias,
Happy to see your quick reply and if you could guide me how remove mate locker/install i3lock and some extra like games because i want specific apps on thinclient etc. I am novice to Linux and I means
if you sent here the step required.

Thanks

Got your Mail, but I am only able to write an detailed answer after the 29th...

Sent from my Cyanogen phone

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Looking forward to itā€¦ :grinning:

Up till now, the only ā€œsolutionā€ to the above problem with screen locking I have found to ā€œworkā€ has been to install Caffeine on the client and have it permanently disable the screen-saver. If you have figured a way to shut out the mate screen-saver, but also implement one in the client that that can then be also unlocked by the client, I am very interested!

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Glad you liked the tutorial J. As for the screen-saver issue, see my immediately previous post. I too am looking forward to hear how M has resolved this!

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Looking forward to detailed answer smiley:

I think there would be a workaround for it but in Linux my knowledge is limited.

Hi Mathias,
I am afraid you have been busy and hope you will get spare time to reply