Would Ubuntu MATE consider dropping unnecessary software?

What you are describing is functionality that belongs in a package manager. What does a welcome screen have to do with fixing a broken package?

And why did you have a broken package? Presumably you force loaded a package? And why did you feel the need to do this? Is it because the software boutique did not have the package you wanted?

So the package management offered by UM - synaptic and software boutique did not fulfil your initial needs? Is that right?

Of course UM has the numbers to maintain a wiki.

People often refer to UM as a distribution (I’m guilty as anyone on this), but it is not. It is a flavour of Ubuntu. So it doesn’t need a heap of documentation writing, because it is already there.

The various flavours share common elements that give Ubuntu as a distribution its identity. Using the same package manager would strengthen this identity.

It’s just like when I install a distro/flavour/whatever that is based on mate desktop I expect caja, Marco etc. I don’t expect plank as my panel.

I’ll repeat again, I don’t just want to focus on welcome (we’re never going to agree). Can we agree that synaptic can be culled?

If that’s not bare minimum enough for you, then perhaps this will be.

https://ubuntu-mate.community/t/lightweight-desktop-environment-for-ubuntu-server/13479/11?u=steven

It’s interesting to see how your mindset seems to assume that everyone should have the same level of intelligence and ability as you. But at the point where you abuse people, I will stop reading. UM is an inclusive OS, it’s used by my aged parents, and I use it too, it’s used by people of different and varying levels of ability and needs. Humble yourself or find another platform to shout at.

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[quote=“veggrower, post:21, topic:14367, full:true”]
What you are describing is functionality that belongs in a package manager. What does a welcome screen have to do with fixing a broken package?[/quote]

This is exactly why Ubuntu MATE Welcome screen is such a valuable asset and ahead of everyone else. Instead of a bunch of needless links to community websites, like what everyone else does, it also offers you quick fix options that are well described and at the distance of a button or a copy paste.

Boy, you really are on a mission, aren’t you? What on earth are you talking about?
What does it matter how I or anyone else came to get broken packages within minutes of first installing an unfamiliar operating system? How could I even remember something that happened so long ago. We are talking about quick fixing solution at the distance of your fingertips without scouring the internet or begging for help on a forum.

You need to make a more serious effort. For pete’s sake. Your argumentation is bordering the ridiculous at this point.

Where is it in all these years?

[quote=“veggrower, post:21, topic:14367, full:true”]
I’ll repeat again, I don’t just want to focus on welcome (we’re never going to agree). Can we agree that synaptic can be culled?[/quote]

No we cannot agree, for pete’s sake! Synaptic is not installed by default with Ubuntu MATE. It doesn’t matter. And if you don’t like the Welcome Screen or the Software Boutique, you can completely ignore them, even hiding them from the menu. Pretty soon made even more easy when MenuLibre becomes the default menu manager.

What you don’t want to understand is that you are asking to remove the two most defining packages of the Ubuntu MATE distribution. And two of the most beloved ones (for reasons that in your little time among us you completely fail to grasp). This is even more evidenced by your argumentation. And you make claims and demand-like requests from a position of “ignorance”, as if a distribution should fit your particular needs and lets screw everyone else.

If you like streamlined distributions with little in the way of homegrown solutions/applications, Ubuntu MATE is not for you. And I doubt any Ubuntu-based distro will ever be. You need to head on to Arch, Void, or Solus perhaps. I can promise you one thing though, no matter your efforts here the Welcome Screen and the Software Boutique will not be going anywhere, if you even cared to read their roadmaps.

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Re: synaptic

Yes you are right it is not installed by default. Sorry I thought I had seen it in, and since you brought it up I thought it was.

The rest: wow

I thought a forum was for discussion? I was happy to accept that I have a different viewpoint to the majority and have said it multiple times.

No I don’t think Ubuntu mate is for me. But I had already worked that out long ago when I was on this forum before.

To conclude. I wanted UM to have its own identity, whilst being recognisable as a Ubuntu flavour. I don’t want it to imitate other os’s, but if the user wants that then they can go ahead and do it. I want to fix usability problems, rather than work around them via a welcome screen. I wanted documentation that is driven and maintained by the community for their needs and varied abilities.

For the life of me i can’t see what is wrong with that, but hey most of the time think I live on a different planet to everyone else.

[quote=“veggrower, post:25, topic:14367, full:true”]
To conclude. I wanted UM to have its own identity, whilst being recognisable as a Ubuntu flavour. I don’t want it to imitate other os’s, but if the user wants that then they can go ahead and do it. [/quote]

You just don’t realize that the unique-among-all-distros Welcome Screen and the even more unique Software Boutique are precisely the two most recognizable software mascots of the distro. Heck! I’m pretty sure that long after I forget how the Ubuntu MATE logo looked like, I will still remember how cool the Boutique was and how much it helped me keep my PPAs list to a minimum.

The two pieces of software you wish removed are precisely the two ones that fit in your own quote like a glove. What else do you think is identity-worthy on a modern linux distribution. The DE? Certainly not! I run MATE on Arch.

And who told you you can’t do it?
When are you going to just stop and think before you post?

We discussed this already. I told you why we don’t have this. You said there’s a community large enough to have this. But you realize we don’t have this. So… why don’t we have this if I’m wrong and you are right?

It would help if you came to the same planet of everyone else.

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Nice.

See BrokenCanoe’s post above.

Many of us are new to the Linux experience. I consulted the “Welcome” app for a time and then I simply clicked the box on the splash screen that suppressed it on log in so I don’t see it any longer. I like “tweak” also. It might be helpful to veggrower and others to add these “unloved” apps to the “Software boutique” or a completely new app so that some “core” features can be deleted easily without resorting to the terminal CLI and possibly breaking the distro.

I’ve used this Software Boutique feature several times to delete software that I installed and ultimately rejected. Just a thought. I think the MATE team is doing a fabulous job.

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Indeed!
Nothing to add.

I can only show you the door... [url=https://ubuntu-mate.community/t/choices-greeting-software-and-perspectives-of-a-general-user/14378]You're the one who has to walk through it.[/url]

Hallo

I believe Mr. Wimpress originally developed Ubuntu-Mate with non-technical users in mind. The “Welcome” screen is a very useful component of Ubuntu-Mate for such users. :slight_smile:

Technically minded people with Linux experience won’t need it. But I suspect they’ll be running “bunsen labs” or “OpenSuse”, or “Arch” or something else. :penguin:

You can do a lot with Ubuntu-Mate, starting from “zero” you can go all the way up to running servers with advanced file systems (as far as I can tell, I’m not there yet by a long way).

I would like to make one request. Would you please try not to base your constructive criticism of Ubuntu-Mate on the “reported” (selective bias?) preferences of windoze X users? I no longer see any reason to compare GNU/Linux to windoze. I’m past that stage of my GNU/Linux journey.

I haven’t read all of the posts on this thread yet, but I felt it important to add my support to “Welcome”.

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For what it’s worth: I’m quite comfortable with shell interaction and linux systems in general. I do use Software Boutique :blush:

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I would strongly recommend you don’t use my post as an example of the level you clearly feel you have to stoop to. Whatever elitist mindset you have, clearly you don’t have the humility, empathy or understanding of anything greater than what’s past your own nose. Some of us can’t see, some of us are old, some of us have disabilities, but NONE of us are better than any other. If you disagree with that sentiment, I hope one day you can take a look in the mirror and realise what the literal meaning of Ubuntu is.

If you want to feel better than everyone else, if you want to belittle or denigrate others because they don’t fit your opinion of a Linux user, quite frankly you don’t have a place here. You’re a relic of a bygone era, Ubuntu is for everyone, you included, IF you’re able to understand the concepts of decency, inclusivity, humanity and cooperation.

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I am confused. This is a flavor of Ubuntu and if you start removing things it would be just Ubuntu. If you don’t stop there, it wouldn’t be Ubuntu but something else.

UM has everything I want +. If I choose to take off the training wheels, I’ll do it without fuss, but I actually like them.

Keep up the great work & THANK YOU UM Team!

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As do I because it is also a time saver for everyone, regardless of skill level. All the post install scripts I used to have are replaced by Welcome and the Software Boutique.

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I’m sorry you “bought” this “flavor” of pudding and don’t like it. Why do you keep eating it? Go back to the" store" and get a different flavor or maybe switch to tapioca instead.

No it is not perfect and it will never be, but for an old guy that used Unix in the 60’s it is a joy. Plus if I have a question, there are 20 people willing to help me. Some of them even stopped what they were doing and made me a video to get me past the hard parts. Bless them for all the help.

I think you are confusing bloat-ware with helpful-ware. On every PC computer I have bought from a name brand mfg. it took me hours to get rid of the bloat-ware. I have yet to dump anything in UM 16.04. My UM 16.04 still boots up in 15 seconds and shuts down in 5 and an update happens in tens of minutes, not overnight.

You live on a strange planet that wants everything your way, must be lonely.

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Thank you for that. I know how to do all that, but the luxury of not having to is priceless.

17.10 is looking great btw.

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It uses APT package manager (the same as other front-ends) and it does its job rather nicely. So I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about.

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Guys I think he quit our forum and moved onto something else.

(Not that I mind, but I figured I would mention that since there’s still some interest communicating with him.)

Okay, actually a legitimate suggestion; drop Compiz. Keep support in mate-tweak for people who opt for 0.9 or build from soreau’s repo for 0.8, but dropping Compiz would make the system a bit lighter and not depending on such a buggy compositor as a dependency of the MATE desktop would be beyond beneficial for updating.